USAF to USN Inter-Service Transfer for Color Vision

[bmather9]

My story is a long one, but I commissioned into the USAF in May 2009 with a pilot slot and a Flying Class I that I completed at Langley AFB. In September I entered active duty and moved to my pilot training base but in October I was sent to Brooks City Base for Medical Flight Screening and disqualified for color vision. I'm still at the same base and have been fighting to get an exception that would let me into pilot training but it doesn't seem likely to get approved at all.

I recently talked to to an student naval aviator who had the same basic story as me; made it to his USAF pilot training base, got DQed for color vision, eventually was reassigned as a finance officer, but then succeeded in a transfer into Naval Aviation.

I know for a fact that I can pass the Navy's color vision test; I've taken that very test (Ishihara PIP) 3 times throughout my life and scored 13/14 once and 12/14 twice (12/14 is the current Navy standard). I'm also confident I can pass a Falant. (I'm not sure if the Navy uses only Ishihara PIP, because the reg I read calls it PIP I, and from what I understand it could be either Ishihara or Dvorine, which are slightly different, please let me know if you know which ones they actually use). Unfortunately I was on a distant visual acuity waiver with the USAF (20/100 vision uncorrected, corrected to 20/20 or better with soft contact lenses) and I believe the Navy currently requires 20/40 uncorrected for SNA's.

So I'm currently still waiting to hear about my exception for the USAF, but since it will most likely be denied, my plan is to ask for a Contingent Release from the USAF and then to apply to Naval Aviation. Before I do that, I will need to get PRK surgery, likely from the USAF, to meet the Navy's 20/40 uncorrected standard with a waiver. Once I'm medically acceptable (I believe 3-6 months after surgery) then I'd like to get a Navy flight physical so I'll know that I meet all the requirements before transferring.

Following that I'll have to hope that the USAF will let me go on Contingent Release as I currently still have about 3.5 years left in my commitment, but from what I understand, that commitment would just transfer to the USN. Then I'll need to take all the tests, apply for Naval Aviation, hopefully get picked up, and complete the transfer.

This is obviously going to be a long process, but considering I've made it this far with the USAF, I don't want to give up on my dream of being a military aviator. I just turned 25 years old on March 27th and assume that I will not meet the age requirement (I think it's 26) to start training as an SNA if I make it past all the other hurdles. I've read there are age waivers for current active duty members up to 48 months, so in that case I could start training as old as 30, but I'm not sure how common these waivers are.

So I'm looking for information or help on any part of this process:
PRK
Navy Medical (Ishihara or Dvorine?) (PRK waiver)
USAF contingent release
Applying to Naval Aviation as a USAF officer
Age waivers for active duty SNA's

Any advice in general would be appreciated including who to contact in the Navy to apply and who to contact for a flight physical before transferring. Or if you think it's impossible then feel free to let me know if I should just give up on this before I really get my hopes up. Thanks for the help in advance

 

[HackerF15E]

Will the USAF even give you PRK if you are not yet rated?

 

[bmather9]

Will the USAF even give you PRK if you are not yet rated?

From what I read they will, but basically non-rated careers get lower priority. If they won't do it I'd probably pay for it out of pocket since it's something I was planning to do anyway.

 

[bmather9]

Update

So as I had guessed, my attempts to get back into pilot training with the USAF have failed. I have been reassigned as an engineer at Edwards AFB. I'm currently fighting to get a Flying Class III physical so that I could apply to test pilot school as an engineer or maybe get a chance to fly as a flight test engineer. Unfortunately I am meeting a great deal of resistance to this since I was already disqualified for color vision deficiency. This seems ridiculous to me considereing I've never even noticed my color abnormality my entire life and worked as a flight test engineer for 2 years before entering active duty.

I'm actively pursuing an inter-service transfer into Naval Aviation. I've contacted NAMI and am planning to get an SNA flight physical soon. After this I will need to have PRK surgery with the USAF, then be checked by NAMI again to be sure I'm medically qualified. I've also contacted Navy personnel in Millington, TN about inter-service transfers and have learned the basic process I will go through if I am found medically qualified.

The USAF eye surgery program has a 2-year wait list here at Edwards AFB; ridiculous considering my previous base and other bases I've talked to have no wait. So I've been working the system and found that I can travel to Nellis AFB for my pre-op screening, then will go to one of the surgery centers for a week to get the surgery and initial post-op. Edwards optometry is unwilling to take care of my long-term post-op check-ups so I have contacted a civilian doctor who will do this. I'll have to pay out of pocket for the check-ups but its a small price compared to cost of the eye surgery itself.

I'll try to continue updating; if anyone has information that might help me, please let me know.

 

[MAKE VAPES]

Wow, sounds like a lot of work.... if, then, else....

Why didn't you man up and FLY NAVY in the first place? Just kidding, good luck, don't give up, but also don't drop the ball on your present "career/assignment" either.

 

[jtmedli]

So as I had guessed, my attempts to get back into pilot training with the USAF have failed. I have been reassigned as an engineer at Edwards AFB. I'm currently fighting to get a Flying Class III physical so that I could apply to test pilot school as an engineer or maybe get a chance to fly as a flight test engineer. Unfortunately I am meeting a great deal of resistance to this since I was already disqualified for color vision deficiency. This seems ridiculous to me considereing I've never even noticed my color abnormality my entire life and worked as a flight test engineer for 2 years before entering active duty.

I'm actively pursuing an inter-service transfer into Naval Aviation. I've contacted NAMI and am planning to get an SNA flight physical soon. After this I will need to have PRK surgery with the USAF, then be checked by NAMI again to be sure I'm medically qualified. I've also contacted Navy personnel in Millington, TN about inter-service transfers and have learned the basic process I will go through if I am found medically qualified.

The USAF eye surgery program has a 2-year wait list here at Edwards AFB; ridiculous considering my previous base and other bases I've talked to have no wait. So I've been working the system and found that I can travel to Nellis AFB for my pre-op screening, then will go to one of the surgery centers for a week to get the surgery and initial post-op. Edwards optometry is unwilling to take care of my long-term post-op check-ups so I have contacted a civilian doctor who will do this. I'll have to pay out of pocket for the check-ups but its a small price compared to cost of the eye surgery itself.

I'll try to continue updating; if anyone has information that might help me, please let me know.

Sounds like you're going about this the right way. My advice: Know everything about your eyes before and after the surgery. Know what the prescription is now, what it needs to be, what your problems are, and what it finally comes out at. Knowing this stuff for myself instead of relying on doctors is what got me my PRK waiver. Good luck.

 

[bmather9]

Wow, sounds like a lot of work.... if, then, else....

Why didn't you man up and FLY NAVY in the first place? Just kidding, good luck, don't give up, but also don't drop the ball on your present "career/assignment" either.

The truth is I tried to go Navy in the first place, but I didn't meet the uncorrected distant vision standard. The Navy used to have a contact lens waiver policy for up to 20/400 (mine is 20/100) but they dropped it right before I could apply to OCS. In those days, PRK/Lasik wasn't really an option, so I went for the USAF since they gave me a waiver to wear soft contacts.

As for my current assignment, its not bad at all; I love engineering, but it doesn't seem to be the type of engineering that I really enjoy, unlike my previous job. I'll stick it out and hope for the best.

 

[bmather9]

Good and Bad News

About 3 weeks ago I had PRK eye surgery at Wright-Patterson AFB. I was able to read 20/20 each eye before I left on day 6 after the surgery, although it was blurry. Recovery has continued nicely and I don't seem to have any problems; I'll have a better idea of where I stand at my one month follow-up appointment.

So looking ahead, I can get a Flight Physical with the Navy once 3 months from surgery has elapsed. Since I already went to a Navy doc to get tested for color vision and passed, I don't anticipate any problems in the full physical. Assuming I get through all of that I'll need to continue with my plan to get a conditional release from the USAF and apply to the Navy; my Squadron Commander is backing me up in every way with this.

Now for the bad news; my Naval Aviation POC has told me that they don't plan to have any slots for inter-service transfers for SNA or NFO (last year they had 2 SNA's and 3 NFO's; the NFO spots went unfilled). He also said he expects zero for next year as well. So even with this bad news, there's really nothing I can do other than continue with the Flight Physical and my application with the hopes that a spot opens up. I figure if my application is completed and too many Academy/ROTC applicants get DQed then I might just get lucky.

So with the dark outlook for me getting into Naval Aviation I checked with the Marines and Army; Marines aren't taking any transfers for any career fields this year for officers, and the Army will only take transfers into aviation if you're already rated. So I've been looking into Army National Guard (Air National Guard would DQ me for color vision) and it seems promising. I'm sure aviation slots are competitive as always but it seems that at any given time there are at least a dozen states with openings for aviation. I'm still researching and trying to figure out how I could make that one work, but at least there is hope.

In the mean time, I'm still fighting color vision stuff in the USAF. My desired backup careers were the likes of Navigator, Special Ops, or Test Pilot School (as a Flight Test Engineer) all of which I am now disqualified for solely because of color vision. Getting accepted to any of these would be difficult, but at least I had a goal to shoot for. My FCIII physical for these jobs has been trying to get approved for 4 months now and I was even tested for color vision twice (once at the physical in May and again after I PCSed in August) both of which I passed. I'm sure good color vision is very important for all of these jobs, but something is seriously wrong here when I am qualified for these same jobs in all of the other services.

I apologize for my complaining; I'd appreciate any info or suggestions about this whole process.

 

[HackerF15E]

Congrats on getting the surgery -- even if none of the rest of your career hopes pan out, that will be a lifelong improvement to your lifestyle.

So, what is your plan from here? What kind of 'fight' do you have going with the AF regarding color vision?

 

[ryan1234]

Air National Guard would DQ me for color vision.

Although it's the whole Brooks deal again, the ANG has a way of making things happen... not exactly sure about your case, but it may be something worth looking into...

have you tried an ETP?

 

[bmather9]

Plans

Congrats on getting the surgery -- even if none of the rest of your career hopes pan out, that will be a lifelong improvement to your lifestyle.

So, what is your plan from here? What kind of 'fight' do you have going with the AF regarding color vision?

The plan from here is to apply to Naval Aviation even though they say they have no slots for transfers; I'll periodically check with the Marines and Army to see if anything opens up. I might try for an ETP again with my new chain of command; other than that, I'll keep working in the AF as an engineer and try to find a way into the air.

The "fight" I speak of is dealing with a Flying Class III physical; I need this physical to be able to fly as an engineer or apply for Test Pilot School (as an engineer). AFI48-123 states that I need to pass the PIP I and PIP II for an FCIII physical. For Flying Class I the regulation says something to the effect of "any type or degree of deficiency is disqualifying". So when I was at Brooks for FCI they gave me the full color vision work-up (consists of about 8 color vision tests). So even though I pass most of them (including the PIP I and PIP II) some of them reveal a color vision deficiency. Now that I have been deemed "color deficient" my FCIII is having lots of problems (for over 4 months) getting approved, even though I clearly pass PIP I and PIP II, as required by AFI48-123, on multiple occasions.

Other than that I've read the USAF will be transitioning to a new color vision test (http://www.wpafb.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123214919). Unfortunately this probably won't help me; I come across as mildly color deficient with this test. So unless the actual standard of "any type or degree of deficiency is disqualifying" changes, then I'm outta luck. They claim in that article that even the mildest color vision deficiency has proven problematic in the modern military cockpit, but I have yet to hear of any such problems. I've talked with a former crew chief who worked on F22 displays who ended up finding out he was color deficient at Brooks after being selected for UPT. He claimed that he never had any issues with colors in his life, much less with those displays. Anyway there are approx. 70 USAF pilots currently flying with color vision deficiency that was discovered after UPT; none of them seem to have problems, and I've talked with a few who all say they've never noticed a difficulty at all. Most didn't even know they were color deficient. With the Navy/Marine and Army's less restrictive methods of testing for color vision, there are certainly even more mildly color deficient individuals flying in those services without any problems. I guess everyone has to draw the line somewhere, I just wish they would all end up with the same standards, whether they be the relaxed ones that I pass, or the strict ones that I fail...[end rant]

Although it's the whole Brooks deal again, the ANG has a way of making things happen... not exactly sure about your case, but it may be something worth looking into...

have you tried an ETP?

I had ruled out the ANG because of Brooks, but you have a good point; it's worth a shot and I'll see where I get with it. I'll almost definitely need an ETP for the ANG since my medical records already label me as color deficient, but from my understanding, the ANG has an entirely different chain of command that might be more likely to approve an ETP?

I did try for an ETP while I was still stationed at Laughlin AFB, but it was denied after 8 months. Basically, I think my squadron commander at Laughlin talked to enough medical people until he realized that it was next to impossible to get it to work, at which point he gave up. The more I think about it, maybe I should try again now that I've PCSed and have an entirely new chain of command.

 

[bmather9]

Just as an update, I have put the plans to transfer to the Navy on hold. Now that more than 3 months have passed since my PRK surgery I'm eligible to get a flight physical, but unfortunately my Navy contact still says there are no pilot slots for inter-service transfers for this fiscal year, and 99% chance there will be none next year as well.

So my primary goal is to apply to Army National Guard units hoping that at least one state will pick me up for pilot training. I think I mentioned before active duty Army won't even talk to me since I'm not already an aviator. I have my Army flight physical scheduled for next week along with their flight aptitude test (AFAST). I'll post again when I get the results.

 

[bunk22]

What test does the USAF use for color vision? I thought they used those color plates. The Navy, as far as I know, has always relied on the FALANT light test and thank goodness for those as I have a hard time with those plates. I'm coming up on 18 years active duty and if not for the FALANT, I doubt I would have been flying for the military.

 

[phrogpilot73]

The Navy, as far as I know, has always relied on the FALANT light test and thank goodness for those as I have a hard time with those plates.

I did the plates in Norfolk for my last flight physical. I'd say it's about 50-50 whether I get FALANT or plates. Good thing I don't have problems with either.

 

[bunk22]

I did the plates in Norfolk for my last flight physical. I'd say it's about 50-50 whether I get FALANT or plates. Good thing I don't have problems with either.

If you fail the plates, they have to let you take the FALANT. I've been given the plates too, last time in 2008 in Pensacola. The clinic didn't have it anymore, the corpsman told me somebody walked off with it lol So they had a book with shapes, X's O's and triangles I think. I'm not worried as by this time, I'm not getting booted out for color vision and I actually pass damn thing. He said I got them all correct, 14/14 and to be honest, I was guessing :icon_mi_1