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The Great Cross-Country Thread: Rules, Regs, Destinations and Sea Stories

MackOhare

New Member
This one may belong in the "stupid questions" thread, and it may be the mother of all dumb military aviation questions, so if any mods think it should be moved...but it also relates to AF aircraft, so? Anyway, as a kid growing in Chicago near Midway airport, every few months or so I'd see an AF or Navy plane, includes trainers, fly over my house, gear down, on short final for MDW. I'm talking mid-to-late 90s here.

I used to ride my bike around the airport, so whenever I heard/saw one of these birds, I'd race to the airport, and sure enough, would usually see them parked near the National Guard hanger (which is a helo only hangar, I've toured it). I've seen F-18s, -15s, -16s, T-45s, T-34s, 37s, T-2s, even a few C-130s.

Almost everytime, the planes would park overnight, sometimes for the weekend. My question is, and this is the stupid part, does or did the military ever allow pilots to use planes for personal use? Perhaps back in the "good ole" days? I've always wondered if these guys where perhaps visiting friends/family in the area, and were allowed to take their planes for the weekend? Or where these more likely just cross-country hops, or some other military assignment that brought them to the city, maybe? I've thought MDW a strange place to park overnight, and these were not on airshow weekends, the Chicago Air Show is only for a weekend in August, and most planes fly out of Gary or Rockford. Any thoughts? Logically, I doubt that the military would ever allow this, but its just something that I've always wondered about since those days?
 

e6bflyer

Used to Care
pilot
Midway is a pretty popular stop for weekend cross country training missions due to its close proximity to Chicago.
I can assure you that nobody ever gets to take a plane on a "personal" trip. There is always training associated with the trip, usually in the form of some sort of proficiency or syllabus event logged. Any aircraft that you saw that starts with a T was almost definitely on an instrument cross country as part of a student syllabus. There is a whole set of rules (no trips to major sporting events, not your hometown, etc) to ensure that it does not appear to the public's eye that we are wasting tax dollars on personal trips.
Now, if you happen to stay in a nice hotel and catch a Cubs game with your best bud from college while you are on this training event, well.....
 

JustAGuy

Registered User
pilot
I can assure you that nobody ever gets to take a plane on a "personal" trip. There is always training associated with the trip, usually in the form of some sort of proficiency or syllabus event logged.

That's almost true. It all comes down to money. If you are at the end of a quarter/fiscal year and have flight hours to burn, "Fleecing of America" trips have been known to take place. To really sell a "personal" trip you have to throw something in there, ie, "I am going to talk to the ROTC unit at the college I went to." It just might happen that it could perhaps be over the homecoming weekend.
 

e6bflyer

Used to Care
pilot
That's almost true. It all comes down to money. If you are at the end of a quarter/fiscal year and have flight hours to burn, "Fleecing of America" trips have been known to take place. To really sell a "personal" trip you have to throw something in there, ie, "I am going to talk to the ROTC unit at the college I went to." It just might happen that it could perhaps be over the homecoming weekend.

My point exactly. You will never hear a squadron opso say "yes, Mr. Senator, I told him to take the plane and get a whole mess of lobsters for last weekend's clambake. We didn't do any training enroute, we just had hours to burn."
There will always be some sort of training logged enroute, and truth be told, you are always getting proficiency anyway just by flying.
 

jtmedli

Well-Known Member
pilot
Midway is a pretty popular stop for weekend cross country training missions due to its close proximity to Chicago.
I can assure you that nobody ever gets to take a plane on a "personal" trip. There is always training associated with the trip, usually in the form of some sort of proficiency or syllabus event logged. Any aircraft that you saw that starts with a T was almost definitely on an instrument cross country as part of a student syllabus. There is a whole set of rules (no trips to major sporting events, not your hometown, etc) to ensure that it does not appear to the public's eye that we are wasting tax dollars on personal trips.
Now, if you happen to stay in a nice hotel and catch a Cubs game with your best bud from college while you are on this training event, well.....

haha well put!! I've seen my friends that are in flight school do this sort of thing before. Come home for a football game / IFR training flight back into good ole' Clemson. Funny how that sort of thing makes sense when you say it the second way!!
 

HornyU2

Member
pilot
None
Ask Huggy how many "training events" he has participated in a T-38 around the country. Must be a pretty flat training curve to have needed so much training :)


To answer your question (not actually that dumb in my opinion,) military pilots are required to fly a certain amount of hours and training events per year and even per quarter. Different aircraft types have just as different requirements, but currency and proficiency are perishable goods in the pilot world. It's not hard to argue, especially in the last couple decades, that the US owns the worlds greatest air power as a result of the training and proficiency of our pilots. Nobody else even gets close on this. When I was flying the U-2, we used the T-38 as a companion trainer. Every pilot had to fly a certain number of sorties, and a certain number had to be of the instrument and navigation variety. It actually saved the Air Force money for us to do this on the weekends, and to civilian fields or other already-open bases (imagine the expense of keeping the entire flight operation open during the weekend to cover T-38 flying: Tower, maintenance, fire dept, base operations, etc.) So, essentially, we trained around the US and the locations didn't really matter as long as they met the aircraft requirements and a short list of administration type stuff. Of course, you'd sooner get the French to start a war than you would be able to stop pilots from finding fun along the way. Every job has it's perks, just that this one has so many.
 

MackOhare

New Member
Cool, thanks for the replies guys. Ok, so short answer is there are official and logical reasons for the flights, but also some potential de facto perks as well. I got ya. That makes sense to me. Sweet, can finally put that to rest after all these years...
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Cool, thanks for the replies guys. Ok, so short answer is there are official and logical reasons for the flights, but also some potential de facto perks as well. I got ya. That makes sense to me. Sweet, can finally put that to rest after all these years...
Basically, if you want to go somewhere like a hometown once, that's OK. If you want to go to a major sporting event, well, Big Navy might even authorize a flyover, depending on which particular event it is, those things being good for recruiting and all. But if you game the system and treat the jet like your personal taxi service, know the line guys at your hometown FBO by name, or try to scam your way to the Super Bowl, stand by to get your pee-pee schwacked.
 

Casual

Jammin'
None
There is a whole set of rules (no trips to major sporting events, not your hometown, etc) to ensure that it does not appear to the public's eye that we are wasting tax dollars on personal trips.

I'm sure this is true, but plenty of the cross country trips we do are to instructors' home towns or to major sporting events. Plenty of training gets done along the way, of course (usually two or three students worth).
 

bunk22

Super *********
pilot
Super Moderator
I'm sure this is true, but plenty of the cross country trips we do are to instructors' home towns or to major sporting events. Plenty of training gets done along the way, of course (usually two or three students worth).

If you're getting an X out of it, or many X's, all should be good. Just taking a jet out to your hometown for a Saturday game, that could be a problem.
 

MH-Z

New Member
pilot
If you're getting an X out of it, or many X's, all should be good. Just taking a jet out to your hometown for a Saturday game, that could be a problem.


I agree... there is a process that goes into a CCX request. You generally can't just take the keys without it being approved higher up (CO or wing... higher if it isn't CHINFO approved). It's really good to get out of the local area for training because you can almost get too complacent with the same types of events and places over and over again. It's really empowering the first time you get to do it (either on your own or leading a crew). Just remember, it never hurts to ask! ;)
 

kmac

Coffee Drinker
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
I'll give a quick example of this coming weekend. I am taking my student out to Los Angeles so that I can see my family, some friends, and a Dodgers game (which to me, is always a major sporting event). However, as the others have pointed out, training must occur. My student will fly 2 day visual navigation flights (routes along the ground using sectionals), 2 night visual navigation flights (meaning I have to get back late on Sunday evening), and 2 radio instrument flights. Those RI flights include flying into the LA Class B, which can be challenging for a student. Is it a good deal for me? Sure.

From an operational point of view, I can knock out 6 X's over a 3 day period (although I believe that Saturday/Sunday don't count against the squadron when it comes to Total Time to Train (for students)). That means cross-country flights get a lot of training done over a short period of time. In the grand scheme of things, this saves the Navy money by getting a student through the program faster than if they were scheduled for 1-2 events per day (during the week). On purely a training angle, it's nice to show students the "real world" of flying as opposed to the structured flying around places such as Corpus or Pensacola. The ways of doing business around the training bases are quite a bit different from flying point A to point B across the country.
 

picklesuit

Dirty Hinge
pilot
Contributor
My CCX in advanced was up to Iowa (so I could see the family)...the only way to get that hookup was finding a sky-diving fly-in at a podunk airport in Fort Dodge, IA and the IP who loved to sky-dive. Two legs and one rental car later I was drinking with the cousins regaling them with stories of my outstanding airmanship, and the last I saw of the IP he was hurtling toward earth on purpose....

Good times had by all. If you want to go somewhere specific it just takes some legwork on your part to sell it.
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
It's really empowering the first time you get to do it (either on your own or leading a crew). Just remember, it never hurts to ask! ;)
No, it's not. Going on the road does not magically give you the power to handle flying difficult approaches, or talk to non-local ATC. You may have said "power" or ability, and do well. You may not, in which case you fail.

You are empowered when you are delegated legal authority, not when you get warm fuzzies. Please step away from the pop psychobabble.

Sorry, pet peeve. Threadjack over.
 

Ken_gone_flying

"I live vicariously through myself."
pilot
Contributor
I am taking my student out to Los Angeles so that I can see my family, some friends, and a Dodgers game (which to me, is always a major sporting event). However, as the others have pointed out, training must occur. My student will fly 2 day visual navigation flights (routes along the ground using sectionals), 2 night visual navigation flights (meaning I have to get back late on Sunday evening), and 2 radio instrument flights. Those RI flights include flying into the LA Class B, which can be challenging for a student.


God help him. :)
 
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