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T-45A Gouge

freshy

Genius by birth. Slacker by choice.
pilot
First off, don't ever listen to a Primary instructor, who flew anything but jets, talk about jets. They don't know sh!t. End of story. Just like a jet guy talking to you about helos or maritime, they also won't know sh!t about that. You are correct, it's very tough in Primary to get a true picture about the jet OR the E-2/C-2 pipelines. The experience just isn't there. However, you're lucky. You live near Kingsville. That resource is available, as well as a phone call. I know guys that called E-2 and C-2 squadrons to ask what life was like before selection because we had no instructors that flew in those communities.

Like zippy said, the studying never stops. In fact, it gets worse (in a different respect though).

The rumors of tight-a$$es and jerks... not true. Every community will have tight-a$$es here or there, but the jet pipeline doesn't have any more than any other community. What some may confuse for being a tight-a$$ is the endless pursuit to be perfect. There is a reason for that, your life depends on it, literally. There is no slack at the boat, there is no slack flying in thick goo on your lead's wing, there certainly isn't any slack when they're shooting at you. Each community will focus its energy in a different area. Jet guys don't tend to be NATOPS nazis. We have more important stuff to worry about, like tactics and threats. No one gives a sh!t how many microns the oil filter seive is, or what an obscure pressure is in a fuel line that you can do nothing about. It. Doesn't. Matter.

Work/Return? Well, that depends what you want out of it. Like airgreg already said, if you want to be the pointy tip of the spear, employing weapons, having to know EVERYTHING from air-to-air, air-to-ground, tanking, recce, the boat, EVERYTHING, if that's for you, then jets is the way to go. Dropping LGB, rolling on on a dive bomb, shooting BVR and then fighting at the merge... you're not going to get that in any other community.

It's up to you in what you want. Every community has its perks and its downs. Yes, the jet pipeline SUCKS at first. It's painful. It's a long year in advanced and you will do more and have more expected of you than any of you counterparts in other communities before you wing. Make no mistake, you have no idea what you're getting yourself into when you select jets from Primary. It's eye opening.

Take it for what it's worth.


Concur 110% Good no bs perspective.
 

bunk22

Super *********
pilot
Super Moderator
First off, don't ever listen to a Primary instructor, who flew anything but jets, talk about jets. They don't know sh!t. End of story. Just like a jet guy talking to you about helos or maritime, they also won't know sh!t about that. You are correct, it's very tough in Primary to get a true picture about the jet OR the E-2/C-2 pipelines. The experience just isn't there. However, you're lucky. You live near Kingsville. That resource is available, as well as a phone call. I know guys that called E-2 and C-2 squadrons to ask what life was like before selection because we had no instructors that flew in those communities.

Like zippy said, the studying never stops. In fact, it gets worse (in a different respect though).

The rumors of tight-a$$es and jerks... not true. Every community will have tight-a$$es here or there, but the jet pipeline doesn't have any more than any other community. What some may confuse for being a tight-a$$ is the endless pursuit to be perfect. There is a reason for that, your life depends on it, literally. There is no slack at the boat, there is no slack flying in thick goo on your lead's wing, there certainly isn't any slack when they're shooting at you. Each community will focus its energy in a different area. Jet guys don't tend to be NATOPS nazis. We have more important stuff to worry about, like tactics and threats. No one gives a sh!t how many microns the oil filter seive is, or what an obscure pressure is in a fuel line that you can do nothing about. It. Doesn't. Matter.

Work/Return? Well, that depends what you want out of it. Like airgreg already said, if you want to be the pointy tip of the spear, employing weapons, having to know EVERYTHING from air-to-air, air-to-ground, tanking, recce, the boat, EVERYTHING, if that's for you, then jets is the way to go. Dropping LGB, rolling on on a dive bomb, shooting BVR and then fighting at the merge... you're not going to get that in any other community.

It's up to you in what you want. Every community has its perks and its downs. Yes, the jet pipeline SUCKS at first. It's painful. It's a long year in advanced and you will do more and have more expected of you than any of you counterparts in other communities before you wing. Make no mistake, you have no idea what you're getting yourself into when you select jets from Primary. It's eye opening.

Take it for what it's worth.

Theres some good advice here. The best info comes from those who have served in that community. Talk to other students who are finished or are almost finished in the J1/J2 pipeline. There are going to be egotistical jack-asses in any community you go to. They might be your cohorts or they might be your CO. If you go E2/C2, the FRS (VAW-120), IMO, was just a lousy place to be as a winged student. When I was there, I tried to bring a little bit of sunshine into a rather bleak place. Some people didn't mind it but in my experience, more did. I was treated worse there than I was in primary. The two cockiest (is that a word?) aviators I've ever known have been E-2 pilots......they were also the two biggest sons of bitches I've ever met. So, IMO, one should enjoy their time off and drink heavily. If you have a family, spend time with them.......and of course......drink heavily. Have fun in your free time, it won't always be there.
 

scoober78

(HCDAW)
pilot
Contributor
Thanks for the perspectives...really good stuff. What I've just felt myself going through the last month, is the gut check that I think always happens when you are thinking about doing something difficult. I just got back from Det and doing forms and PA's...pure joy. I've never had more fun in an airplane and want to maximize my chances of feeling that way for the rest of my career.

Like airgreg already said, if you want to be the pointy tip of the spear, employing weapons, having to know EVERYTHING from air-to-air, air-to-ground, tanking, recce, the boat, EVERYTHING, if that's for you, then jets is the way to go. Dropping LGB, rolling on on a dive bomb, shooting BVR and then fighting at the merge... you're not going to get that in any other community.

I wish you could have read my essay for STA-21....the reason I am here (primary) is because I wanted to be closer to the pointy end...funny that you should mention that.

It's a long year in advanced and you will do more and have more expected of you than any of you counterparts in other communities before you wing.

Also....part of the reason I'm here...

Thanks for the no shi77er.
 

Single Seat

Average member
pilot
None
Don't sweat it. I didn't pre-study one bit. With the length of ground school, etc, it's not required. I suggest drinking, because soon life is going to suck before it gets any better.


Best advice on the board. (Behind mine anyway)
 

FLY_USMC

Well-Known Member
pilot
A guy I met walking in the door at Meridian day one put it best. First day in Meridian, you'll look up, and see a 4-plane going into the break and think, damn that's cool. And for the next month, you'll see that same 4-plane, and think the same thing, over and over. And then reality sets in, and a point will come....when....you see that 4-plane, and rather than look up in awe, you'll flip the fcukers off, because you're sick of the shiat that comes with it.

Or another perspective. It's like being a NASCAR driver. Man you got the coolest job in the world, you're in the big show, I WANNA GO FAST, and man your doing it. Living the dream, but unfortunately, everytime you strap the car on, so does this jacka$$ named Dale Earnhardt, and everytime you drive, he nit picks everything you do. Great race? Eh, doesn't matter. He'll find something wrong.

If you can handle this, awesome. Cockiness? Almost doesn't exist with instructors here, they're all way too nice on the ground, and most the same in the air. All phase I guys aren't cocky, they're just tired of being under the bag. Phase II guys get cocky right at the end, which is total bs too, they know 4 months more than the rest, but they almost enjoy flying again, because let's be frank, anything is better than instruments 24/7.

The acceleration will cease, the need for faster will increase, but there's always afterburner in the future.
 

Squid

F U Nugget
pilot
Living the dream, but unfortunately, everytime you strap the car on, so does this jacka$$ named Dale Earnhardt, and everytime you drive, he nit picks everything you do. Great race? Eh, doesn't matter. He'll find something wrong.

The acceleration will cease, the need for faster will increase, but there's always afterburner in the future.

Agree with above.

To add: That 4 plane you see day one is really sweet. Seeing those guys pick up the gear and flaps and rip it right up to 3k' is really cool. Then you begin to do it and think:

1) -3 is AFU really screwing -4 over. Get tighter. Quit gripping the stick so damn hard, relax. People are looking at you.

2) ANOTHER PA? Are you kidding? This is just about worthless right here... it's a good thing there's a ton of slop on the back end so I can make this circus work.

Everyone, including yourself, will want you to strive for perfection, and to be able to make big boy decisions by yourself... because they train to single seat mentality in advanced, even if you do go prowlers..

You will look forward to "fast break friday" bouncing for the boat. I've *cough* heard *cough* of 420+ kt breaks @ the numbers, on speed and a ball on the lens @ touchdown. Not impressive so much now, but then it sure was.

Just as in all things primary, get reasonably comfortable with it, time to move on to something else.
 

Recovering LSO

Suck Less
pilot
Contributor

Although, its "just" a Prowler and to put it nicely, 'aerodynamically challenged" - here's plenty of reason to put J1/J2 down as your first choice/s.
 

Single Seat

Average member
pilot
None
I've *cough* heard *cough* of 420+ kt breaks @ the numbers, on speed and a ball on the lens @ touchdown. Not impressive so much now, but then it sure was.

I'd have to see that to believe it, that jet didn't slow down at all.
 

larbear

FOSx1000
pilot
I'd have to see that to believe it, that jet didn't slow down at all.

I've seen it, though the particulars seem to have been permanently misplaced in my memory. It tends to be a skill only the IP's have, and I'm content to leave it to them. It doesn't help with the ball flying, and right now I need all the help I can get.
 

Squid

F U Nugget
pilot
I'd have to see that to believe it, that jet didn't slow down at all.

Well I will not take the heat, so I won't tell about personal fast break Fridays.

But.... since I was sucking wingtip at the time... on a multiplane ACM solo my lead did in FACT drop us off just past the numbers at 41x kts. True story.

And no it didn't slow down you are completely correct. I was at the G limit (6.5???) slowing to gear speed for sure. Gear in transit rolling in the groove was an eye opener if you were set on not being a weenie and taking it around.

That brings me to more FCLP shenanigans.... Waveoff Wednesdays! When 8-10 boat players come back from the OLF and wave their first pass off it really says something (or should) about the instruction they are getting.
 
I wish you could have read my essay for STA-21....the reason I am here (primary) is because I wanted to be closer to the pointy end...funny that you should mention that.

Always great to see the troops through STA-21. Great program and welcome to officer ranks. Having a blast yet? :D
 
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