USN Showdown between Super Hornet and F-35

[BigRed389]

The better question: How will Germany use their Growlers w/o Q-99 pods. I haven't seen the terms of the deal, or talked with my NIPO contacts, but there just aren't any extra pods in our (or Australia's) inventory and NGJ FOC timelines push out past 2030. Conventional wisdom is that they'll probably be more of an ES vice EA platform for Germany in the short term. That's still a great capability that nobody else in EUCOM (including the US) will have.

Assume the Q-99 production line is cold then?

Working with/for Brits right now the spelling thing can be a little annoying at times, it gets to be a pain when it comes to paperwork since they have a different way of doing things. Through Aussies into the mix and things get even more interesting.

Working a program with RAN for a UK frigate hull, various domestic Aussie combat systems (radar in particular), and US AEGIS and related core components...everything from Engineering documents to differing classification systems creates interesting headaches.

We may share a similar language (I'll never say "same" anymore), but ironically, I think the JMSDSF and ROKN mirror our policies more closely than FVEY.

 

[cfam]

Assume the Q-99 production line is cold then?

Yes. The system has been around since the 70s. There have been a series of iterative upgrades, most recently the low band transmitter in the early 2000s (they built those up until 5 years ago), but recent upgrades have mostly focused on trying to squeeze whatever remaining capability we can out of the system as opposed to building entirely new transmitters.

 

[SynixMan]

The better question: How will Germany use their Growlers w/o Q-99 pods. I haven't seen the terms of the deal, or talked with my NIPO contacts, but there just aren't any extra pods in our (or Australia's) inventory and NGJ FOC timelines push out past 2030. Conventional wisdom is that they'll probably be more of an ES vice EA platform for Germany in the short term. That's still a great capability that nobody else in EUCOM (including the US) will have.

BFM and Aggressor duties, duh. ?

 

[Brett327]

BFM and Aggressor duties, duh. ?

It will then be the most capable fighter platform in the German Air Force.

 

[nittany03]

Jim Webb weighs in on General Berger's plans. He's not a fan.

Basically, he says that the plans drawn up jeopardize the Corps' ability to react to anything other than a small subset of contingency operations, subordinates it too much to the Navy, and "divests" forces that will cripple its ability to take casualties and replace them in a peer conflict.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Jim Webb weighs in on General Berger's plans. He's not a fan.

Basically, he says that the plans drawn up jeopardize the Corps' ability to react to anything other than a small subset of contingency operations, subordinates it too much to the Navy, and "divests" forces that will cripple its ability to take casualties and replace them in a peer conflict.

Interesting read, I like how he says "the war you get is rarely the war that you game". It reminds me how the US planned for a war against the USSR, specifically how the Nimitz class were built and designed for operations in the North Atlantic and North Pacific. Then Iraq happened and the equipment failures due to high temps were constant until ShipAlts were done so they could handle the much warmer temps of the gulf.

 

[Brett327]

ShipAlts were done

They didn’t help.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

They didn’t help.

a little bit, with the addition of extra A/C units M-Div berthing didn't have heat stress stay times anymore, I can't tell you how much that sucked.

The new High Pressure Air Compressors were built for higher temps so that reduced the number out of service at any one time, of course they were German so that presented other problems.

 

[Randy Daytona]

Changing gears, I can readily imagine that people are dreaming of a CVL/CVA because of how it would help a potential future war against China. LHDs are great for low intensity banana war kind of conflicts and for once you have air and naval supremacy. But if you're trying to fight your way in to the 9 dash line against swarms of hypersonic ASCMs and DF-21s raining from the sky the LHD and it's 6 jets is just a nice missile sponge. sure you can make the LHD in to a harrier carrier but it's sortie generation rate, self defense (no organic AEW), and striking power would still be limited by the straight deck. A "new midway" would be attractive because it could carry a MEU for when you need to bop East Timor on the nose but could also trade out the VMM(REIN) for more F-35s and maybe some E-2s or some added F-18s. Who knows where'd those airframes/squadrons would come from but a man can dream.

HMS Queen Elizabeth and USS America doing joint F-35B operations and then the USS Carl Vinson joins in with F-35C’s.

Three Aircraft Carriers. Dozens Of Stealth Fighters. A Powerful Allied Battle Group Has Gathered Near China.

Two American flattops and one British one, embarking two different models of F-35 stealth fighter have assembled in the waters around Okinawa with their escort vessels, making up one of the most powerful naval formations to appear anywhere in many years — and sending a message to China over Taiwan.

www.forbes.com

 

[Randy Daytona]

HMS Queen Elizabeth and USS America doing joint F-35B operations and then the USS Carl Vinson joins in with F-35C’s.

Three Aircraft Carriers. Dozens Of Stealth Fighters. A Powerful Allied Battle Group Has Gathered Near China.

Two American flattops and one British one, embarking two different models of F-35 stealth fighter have assembled in the waters around Okinawa with their escort vessels, making up one of the most powerful naval formations to appear anywhere in many years — and sending a message to China over Taiwan.

www.forbes.com

Even though the article left out a number of options using the gators, still a good read in Proceedings about the flexibility of using new LHA's as CVL's. More F-35B's in the air would seem to be a good thing.

The CVL’s Time Has Come

The Navy could quickly field a class of CVLs and an air wing at an acceptable cost to meet the challenge of a rising global maritime adversary.

www.usni.org

On a separate subject, I remember Boeing was working on getting the SuperHornet to operate with a ski jump. Here is an article on it. Will be interesting to see if India goes for it.

Boeing Super Hornet Demonstrates Ski-jump Launch Capability - Seapower

PATUXENT RIVER, Md., Dec. 21, 2020 – Boeing and the U.S. Navy proved recently that the F/A-18 Super Hornet can operate from a “ski jump” ramp, demonstrating the aircraft’s suitability for India’s aircraft carriers, the company said in a Dec. 21...

seapowermagazine.org

 

[ChuckMK23]

Even though the article left out a number of options using the gators, still a good read in Proceedings about the flexibility of using new LHA's as CVL's. More F-35B's in the air would seem to be a good thing.

The CVL’s Time Has Come

The Navy could quickly field a class of CVLs and an air wing at an acceptable cost to meet the challenge of a rising global maritime adversary.

www.usni.org

View attachment 32875

On a separate subject, I remember Boeing was working on getting the SuperHornet to operate with a ski jump. Here is an article on it. Will be interesting to see if India goes for it.

Boeing Super Hornet Demonstrates Ski-jump Launch Capability - Seapower

PATUXENT RIVER, Md., Dec. 21, 2020 – Boeing and the U.S. Navy proved recently that the F/A-18 Super Hornet can operate from a “ski jump” ramp, demonstrating the aircraft’s suitability for India’s aircraft carriers, the company said in a Dec. 21...

seapowermagazine.org

View attachment 32876

It takes selling a butt load of Super Hornets to India to force Big Navy to think outside the box a little. This looks like an awesome capability.

 

[Farva01]

It takes selling a butt load of Super Hornets to India to force Big Navy to think outside the box a little. This looks like an awesome capability.

Why would big Navy need to care about ski-ramp capable Super Hornets?

 

[Gatordev]

It takes selling a butt load of Super Hornets to India to force Big Navy to think outside the box a little. This looks like an awesome capability.

The Navy would be happy to work on it as long as India pays for the NRE. That's how the FMS cases work and it's how USN gets additional capabilities (not that USN needs a ski jump, of course).

 

[Jim123]

They'd have to be the export version with the big motors I've heard about, right? Or did we start buying those for ourselves with the latest blocks?

Otherwise, they'll have the same limited payload issues that all ski jump naval airplanes have (issues with the laws of aerodynamics, weight, and thrust).

Pointy nose experts, tell me if I'm right or if I'm wrong.

 

[wink]

We didn't need several new capabilities on September 10th 2001. We realized the need after the cost of lacking those capabilities became to much. Over land ISR by P-3s was not considered a required capability until it was demonstrated in the Balkans after lacking the capability proved neccessary.