Shave chit affecting flight status?

[Brett327]

Kicking out a fatty months before retirement is cold blooded

CO has zero discretion.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Kicking out a fatty months before retirement is cold blooded

That's how Brett rolls.

 

[nittany03]

That's how Brett rolls.

Did you not read the post immediately above yours?

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Did you not read the post immediately above yours?

I regret nothing

 

[Treetop Flyer]

I’m glad it worked out but it’s still pretty shitty. I had a SSgt one re-enlistment from the finish line who failed his PFT. Too bad, so sad, good bye.

 

[Angry]

Yes, but the argument wasn't that the Navy is/isn't the fattest service. The argument was that a significant majority of E-7+/O-3+ are ignoring the rules/standards (I.E. they're cheating the system). That is clearly not the case. I've been in 6 operational squadrons during my career. I have seen policy on PFA failure ADSEPs wax and wane over those years. We're talking about single digit percentages of people for whom the PFA presents significant career implications.

Upon what do you base this assertion? I mean, how do you really know for sure just by looking at someone. I don't know what you folks in MPA are doing with your PFA programs, but every squadron I've been in as an officer has taken it pretty damn seriously. For example, as a CO, I was processing a CPO for ADSEP for BCA failure who was 7 months from retirement. Sanctuary will not save you from a BCA failure. In the interim, the policy changed 2 weeks before he was due to separate, so he got to stay.

We can quibble about what the right policies ought to be, but I simply do not believe that a lot of people a somehow cheating the system.

You don't have to believe it for it to be true. I'm sorry, but if you honestly believe that 90%+ of the Navy is in satisfactory or better shape based on the BCA/PRT standards then you've either got blinders on or you're delusional. Go watch your next command PRT (assuming you have one) and see how many sailors do actual push ups. Spoiler: it's not 100%.

Oh and asking what I'm basing my opinion on (when it's clearly anecdotal) to imply that personal observation isn't valid, only to cite your own personal experience is pretty poor head work. How do you know for sure that people aren't cheating? I haven't been in six operational squadrons...but my last command had more people than your six squadrons combined, and I had just as much if not more opportunity to interact with sailors than a CO/XO would have.

I've also run ADSEP boards prior to the policy change where CPOs and Officers would retain individuals who clearly met basis for separation because they didn't think it was fair to separate someone for being overweight. That's also ignoring the standard. Maybe VAQ-whatever is the paradigm of Fitness Culture. If so, good on you. But that's not what I saw.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I’m glad it worked out but it’s still pretty shitty. I had a SSgt one re-enlistment from the finish line who failed his PFT. Too bad, so sad, good bye.

back in the early 90's when they had TERA retirement we had a nuke MM1 that was pretty much useless and way fat, failed multiple BCA's and was more than likely on his way out, however he screwed up on watch (caused the ship to go D.I.W). which lead to his NEC being removed and sent to A-gang, but as now a conventional MM he was eligible for TERA, so he submitted and was granted retirement at 16 or 17 years.

It has always bugged me that this guy was able to retire and yet I saw other later in my career who were a few years away and just booted out.

 

[Brett327]

I've also run ADSEP boards prior to the policy change where CPOs and Officers would retain individuals who clearly met basis for separation because they didn't think it was fair to separate someone for being overweight.

There's no ADSEP board for BCA failures. It's automatic.

 

[Brett327]

I’m glad it worked out but it’s still pretty shitty. I had a SSgt one re-enlistment from the finish line who failed his PFT. Too bad, so sad, good bye.

Yeah, it was a shitty situation, but one that was 100% within this CPO's control. I granted a "bad day" waiver and gave him a month to get within standards. We were on cruise. The guy could have been in the gym all day, every day. He put in minimal effort and failed BCA again. Not many options after that.

 

[nittany03]

There's no ADSEP board for BCA failures. It's automatic.

Processing is automatic. Anyone with over 6 years in or who is potentially getting an OTH is entitled to a board.

I once had to sit an admin board for a Sailor in this situation. Senior First Class who was a big boy, the type you know our system isn't set up to favor. Tall and built like a square. Had one PRT failure as a junior Sailor, but he’d recovered and got himself into shape.

Got in a car wreck and jacked up his back. Shouldn’t have even been eligible to take the PRT because he was in too much pain to PT. But the command never put him on LIMDU, just light duty. He failed a BCA and put on FEP . . . but he couldn’t PT aggressively enough to control his weight. Medical was working with him, but had to start with the least invasive stuff first, and eventually got to giving him surgery to cauterize nerves in his back.

But that didn’t happen fast enough, so boom. Third BCA failure, ADSEP board. It was such an obvious leadership failure it was a unanimous “retain.” Even the recorder realized what a shitshow it was, and basically did the bare minimum to present the Government’s case.

 

[Brett327]

There’s no board.

 

[nittany03]

There’s no board.

Anyone over 6 years in has the right to a board regardless of notification or board procedures, regardless of the reason for ADSEP. This is in MILPERSMAN 1910 series for active duty and reservists. The NAVADMIN directing stopping ADSEP processing for PRT failures did not cancel this. Cite instructions I might have missed if you disagree, please.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Anyone over 6 years in has the right to a board regardless of notification or board procedures, regardless of the reason for ADSEP. This is in MILPERSMAN 1910 series for active duty and reservists. The NAVADMIN directing stopping ADSEP processing for PRT failures did not cancel this. Cite instructions I might have missed if you disagree, please.

Oh shit, it’s an O-5 dork-off!

 

[Brett327]

Anyone over 6 years in has the right to a board regardless of notification or board procedures, regardless of the reason for ADSEP. This is in MILPERSMAN 1910 series for active duty and reservists. The NAVADMIN directing stopping ADSEP processing for PRT failures did not cancel this. Cite instructions I might have missed if you disagree, please.

Dude. There’s an office at PERS that specializes in this type of thing. They handed us a template for how to proceed. Multiple JAG reviews. The is no ADSEP board.

 

[wlawr005]

And PERS is never wrong.