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Scooters Forever (A-4 Skyhawk Tribute Thread)

Jolly Roger

Yes. I am a Pirate.
squeeze said:
well, a Skyraider shot down a MIG-17, and a Skyhawk shot one down with a rocket.... so I suppose it's up to your idea of 'unconventional'


That's what I was thinking of!

The VA-165 Spad that shot down a MiG was on a working ground suppression for a rescue over N. Vietnam and in that same mission one was chalked up as a probable.

And an A-4 shot down a MiG-17 with a Zuni rocket, while doing flak suppression over Kep, I think it was.
 

Banjo33

AV-8 Type
pilot
So Lcdr Swartz bagged a Mig with rockets? Man, that's incredible! I've often done it while playing video games, but didn't think it possible in real life!
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
DISCLAIMER: I did not know the story of LCDR Ted Swartz had already been posted and/or discussed on another thread, another time. My belated apology to those amongst us who become incensed at transgressions such as these .... ;) :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The A-4 Skyhawk, as most here know, was one of the key aircraft in the Vietnam War. A4's were in action from the very start of the war and flew throughout the entire conflict. Their missions began with the (in)famous Gulf of Tonkin incident of August 3, 1964, in which aircraft from the USS Constellation and USS Ticonderoga attacked North Vietnamese torpedo boats and facilities, in retaliation for NV attacks, real or imagined, on the destroyers USS Maddox and USS Turner Joy the previous day. The "Scooters" kept the U.S. Navy in the airwar while sustaining about 60% of all Naval Air losses in Vietnam.

Someone in the other, earlier thread mentioned that LCDR Swartz was a former F8 driver -- I cannot verify that. I checked some resources, and found his name mentioned as the CO of VF-161 in the middle '70's flying F4N's on the Midway -- the "real dope" has got to be out there somewhere, I just don't know the details with certainty. If true, Swartz's career is quite the anomaly in Naval Aviation ... from Fighter (F8?)-to-Attack (A4 for sure)-to-Fighter (F4?) again ... a highly improbable journey. And very un-typical for the Navy tactical community, especially "in the day". But nothing is impossible, as I show him as having retired in the Poway area as a VF O-5, so the F4 part of the puzzle seems to fit.

va76.gif
VA-76 SPIRITS
vf161.gif
VF-161 CHARGERS
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
THE FOLLOWING WAS EXTRACTED FROM THE SKYHAWK.ORG website:

On May 1, 1967, VA-76 "Spirit" A-4C Skyhawk, BuNo. 148609, side number NP-685, from USS Bon Homme Richard CVA-31, was piloted by Lieutenant Commander Ted "T.R." Swartz. "T.R." was about to make an air-to-ground Zuni and 20mm strafing attack on North Vietnam's Kep Airfield, north of Hanoi.

As "T.R." began his roll-in to attack the target, his wingman alerted him to a pair of enemy MiG-17 Fresco fighters, moving in to attack at Swartz's 6 o'clock position. The intrepid Skyhawk driver wanted nothing to do with THAT game, so he aborted his target run and pulled his aircraft into a defensive high "G" barrel roll. The unexpected maneuver caused the attacking MiGs to over-shoot and Swartz slid into their 6 o'clock position. Swartz fired a salvo of ZUNI rockets was amazed to see one of his ZUNIs hit one of the MiGs, which disintegrated in a ball of flame.

SCRATCH ONE MIG!
T.R. Swartz retured safely to Bon Homme Richard that day, his action marking the first, and only, shoot-down of an enemy aircraft by a Skyhawk during the Vietnam War.

The Experimantal Aircraft Association displays a very accurate replica of LCDR "T.R." Swartz's A-4C at Wittman Field, Oshkosh, Wisconsin. The flying Scooter replica is actually A-4B 142112, originally owned by the Combat Jets Flying Museum of Houston, Texas, it was flown on the airshow circuit for several years before being donated to the Experimental Aircraft Association about 1994.
********************************************************
My addendum to the above:

The ZUNI rocket, known as Zuni 5-inch FFAR (Folding-Fin Aircraft Rocket), was designed as a modular system, and allowed the use of different types of warhead and fuze. The Zuni traces its lineage from the 3.5" rocket of 1943 and is basically an airborne adaptation of the 5" Naval AA shell. Options included general-purpose and shaped-charged warheads, point-detonation, delayed-action and proximity fuzes. The latter option was intended for air-to-air application, but Zuni was almost exclusively used as an air-to-ground weapon. Although a number of different launchers were tested with Zuni, the rocket was eventually deployed primarily in four-tube pods of the LAU-10/A series.

IT'S A BIG WEAPON !!! Most variants weigh in @ 135 lb + . I had a pod malfunction allowing all four ZUNI's to fire in "ripple", instead of "single" -- basically meaning they all came off at once. Fortunately for me -- to stave off any embarassment certain to follow, I got a "good hit" --- a very good hit :) --- and with the target obscured by smoke and dust from the 4 impacting Zuni's -- the remainder of the division had to abort their runs as they couldn't see the target anymore. Magic ....

mcdonnell_douglas_a4_skyhawk.jpg
zuni_launch_pod.jpg

An A4 from VMA-324 "Devildogs" on the range at NAF Fallon.
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
Can't keep the Eagle drivers from getting all the glory :icon_smil.

Yeah, you can .... Those "(B)eagle" (sic) drivers from Air Force FWS @ Red Flag used to TRY to call 18 mile look-down "kills" on a maneuvering A-4 (us -- the NAS Dallas "Ranger" boys) against max+ ground clutter --- ain't no way, not back "in the day". And they ALWAYS got "disallowed" by the judges. The (B)eagles never quite lived up to their billing -- make no mistake, they were good -- just not as "good" as they thought they were. And absent a GCI assist to support them (AWACS today?), we hammered 'em. If we broke the ROE and actually acted like the "bad guys", we hammered 'em. All the while humming, " Old airframes, older bodies, keen eyes and better tactics "??

When we would beat them --- a regular occurrence, may I add --- they were directed by their CO to come in single plane, straight-in, with their "hook" down .... as in "dragging your tail behind you ...." :grumpy_12
spec_a4_small.jpg

When (B)eagle drivers look over their shoulder and see this ... the next thing they hear on tactical frequency is : "GUNS KILL" ..... :eek:
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
Zuni's and Electical problems ...

This is a little off topic to the original theme of the thread. But since Zuni rockets evolved as a discussion topic on this thread I remembered what caused the flightdeck fire aboard USS Forrestal (CVA 59), on 29 July 1967. Right --- Zuni's and an electical short -- since I described a Zuni problem that I had (fortunately airborne) I thought some here might be interested in the Forrestal fire. Forrestal was operating off Vietnam at the time of the fire. I think this was her first line period on her first (ever) combat cruise -- but I could be wrong on those details -- going on "memory".

forrestal-fire03.gif


A Zuni rocket was accidentally launched on deck (due to an electrical problem), hitting a parked A-4, and igniting its drop tank. The fire then spread to other aircraft, and bombs began to explode on deck. The fire burned for 13 hours, killed 134 crew and caused the loss of 21 aircraft, some of which were pushed overboard before the fire reached them. 7 holes were blown in the flight deck from exploding bombs.

Repairs took 7 months, requiring complete removal and reconstruction of the aft section of the ship down to the deck plates in the hangar. This was the worst carrier fire in the postwar years. The ship has carried the nickname "Forrest Fire" ever since. Films shot during the fire are still shown to all ship-bound sailors and airmen in Fleet Fire Fighting Schools .

This is the official Navy site for a description of the fire, there are many others: The Forrestal Fire, 1050 hours (local) , 29 July, 1967

Even now, 37+ years later, it’s still appropriate for us to be proud of Forrestal’s crew, both ship’s company and air wing personnel.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As an aside: There are at least two differing opinions concerning which A-4 was struck by the Zuni rocket that originated from a F-4. The commonly accepted version is that John McCain's A-4 (#416) was struck by the Zuni rocket that started the fire. Very dramatic story ...

However, a according to the "Manual of the Judge Advocate General Basic Final Investigative Report Concerning the Fire on Board the USS Forrestal (CVA-59)", a 7,500 page report, "A review of the voluminous material contained in the Report of Investigation establishes the central fact that a ZUNI rocket was inadvertently fired from an F-4 aircraft (#110) and struck the external fuel tank of an A-4 aircraft (#405) of LCDR Fred White..." (note: LCDR White died that day -- A4s)

So there you have it: the two scenarios regarding the senior Senator from Arizona and his A-4 on 29 July, 1967.
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
Lady Jessie

skyhawk-pic.jpg

QUESTION: Do any Old, Bold Aviators, Nuggets, or Studs know who "Lady Jessie is/was ... " ??

updatba.gif
ROGER BALL !!
 

Jolly Roger

Yes. I am a Pirate.
The "Lady Jesse" tradition originated with the CO of VA-164, LCDR Richard C. Perry,who applied the name to his aircraft in honor of his friend Mrs Jessie Beck. Perry had become good friends with Jessie Beck while he was a student working at her Reno Hotel and casino. On August 31 1967, LCDR Perry was killed in action when his Skyhawk was hit by a N. Vietnamese SAM. In the year that followed, the CO's aircraft of VA-164 continued to carry the name "Lady Jessie" in remembrance of LCDR Perry and as a continuing tribute to Jessie Beck who adopted the entire Squadron as special Guests at her hotel. This plane was shot down over N. Vietnam and it's pilot killed in action. This is one of two aircraft known to have carried the "Lady Jessie" markings during this combat cruise.

Come on, how about something harder? :D
 

NozeMan

Are you threatening me?
pilot
Super Moderator
Man, and I thought I was a dork! That's some pretty good trivia!
 

Jolly Roger

Yes. I am a Pirate.
Okay here is another one.

Who is the only Naval Aviator since Korea win the CMOH for a combat role in the air?
 

Fly Navy

...Great Job!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
I know Stockdale won the MOH, but that's for his efforts as a POW to resist the enemy.

It's just Medal of Honor. Not Congressional Medal of Honor.
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
jessie.jpg
perry.jpg

Lady Jessie hosts the Ghostriders and Saints @ Riverside Casino, 1968

That's it --- I guess Google takes some of the headwork and memory out of it nowdays ... but good job :) !!

The rest of the story
: LINK TO dedicated to: LCDR Dick Perry, USN & Mrs. Jessie Beck

Jessie Beck was quite a lady. After Dick was KIA (he was like a son to her and Fred -- not "almost" as the link says) she adopted squadrons and pilots whenever we had weapons dets @ Fallon. Jessie Beck's Riverside Casino -- the building still stands today but it is no longer a casino -- was the hangout and watering hole for us everytime we made the trek from Fallon to Reno for the weekend. We always got the room at rock-bottom prices and usually had a bottle of something in the room when we got there. Meals were comped and the first drink was always on the house. All she wanted in return was for us to have a good time and come back next year ...

Ironically, Lady Jessie passed away in 1987 ... just a few short months after Dick's remains were returned from SE Asia. Some said it was like she was waiting for him to return. RIP, Lady Jessie and Brother Dick ...


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ROGER BALL !! Jessie Beck's Riverside in 2004
 

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Fly Navy

...Great Job!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
They just had a show on the Military Channel yesterday about the Saints. They said something like 1 in 3 pilots were killed or shotdown (or was it captured?). Good god, talk about intense.
 

SteveG75

Retired and starting that second career
None
Jolly Roger said:
Okay here is another one.

Who is the only Naval Aviator since Korea win the CMOH for a combat role in the air?

For combat, I'll go with CAPT (then LCDR) Michael J. Estocin

Rank and organization. Captain (then Lt. Cmdr.), U.S. Navy, Attack Squadron 192, USS Ticonderoga (CVA-14). Place and date: Haiphong, North Vietnam, 20 and 26 April 1967. Entered service at: Akron Ohio, 2() July 1954. Born: 27 April 1931, Turtle Creek, Pa.

"For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty on 20 and 26 April 1967 as a pilot in Attack Squadron 192, embarked in USS Ticonderoga (CVA-14). Leading a 3-plane group of aircraft in support of a coordinated strike against two thermal power plants in Haiphong, North Vietnam, on 20 April 1967, Capt. Estocin provided continuous warnings to the strike group leaders of the surface-to-air missile (SAM) threats, and personally neutralized 3 SAM sites. Although his aircraft was severely damaged by an exploding missile, he reentered the target area and relentlessly prosecuted a SHRIKE attack in the face of intense antiaircraft fire. With less than 5 minutes of fuel remaining he departed the target area and commenced in-flight refueling which continued for over 100 miles. Three miles aft of Ticonderoga, and without enough fuel for a second approach, he disengaged from the tanker and executed a precise approach to a fiery arrested landing. On 26 April 1967, in support of a coordinated strike against the vital fuel facilities in Haiphong, he led an attack on a threatening SAM site, during which his aircraft was seriously damaged by an exploding SAM; nevertheless, he regained control of his burning aircraft and courageously launched his SHRIKE missiles before departing the area. By his inspiring courage and unswerving devotion to duty in the face of grave personal danger, Captain Estocin upheld the highest traditions of the U.S. Naval Service. "

An HC-7 pilot was also awarded the MOH:

LT Clyde E. Lassen

Rank and organization: Lieutenant, U.S. Navy, Helicopter Support Squadron 7, Detachment 104, embarked in U.S.S. Preble (DLG-15). Place and date: Republic of Vietnam, 19 June 1968. Entered service at: Jacksonville, Fla. Born: 14 March 1942, Fort Myers, Fla.

"For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty as pilot and aircraft commander of a search and rescue helicopter, attached to Helicopter Support Squadron 7, during operations against enemy forces in North Vietnam. Launched shortly after midnight to attempt the rescue of 2 downed aviators, Lt. (then Lt. (j.g.)) Lassen skillfully piloted his aircraft over unknown and hostile terrain to a steep, tree-covered hill on which the survivors had been located. Although enemy fire was being directed at the helicopter, he initially landed in a clear area near the base of the hill, but, due to the dense undergrowth, the survivors could not reach the helicopter. With the aid of flare illumination, Lt. Lassen successfully accomplished a hover between 2 trees at the survivors' position Illumination was abruptly lost as the last of the flares were expended, and the helicopter collided with a tree, commencing a sharp descent. Expertly righting his aircraft and maneuvering clear, Lt. Lassen remained in the area, determined to make another rescue attempt, and encouraged the downed aviators while awaiting resumption of flare illumination. After another unsuccessful, illuminated rescue attempt, and with his fuel dangerously low and his aircraft significantly damaged, he launched again and commenced another approach in the face of the continuing enemy opposition. When flare illumination was again lost, Lt. Lassen, fully aware of the dangers in clearly revealing his position to the enemy, turned on his landing lights and completed the landing. On this attempt, the survivors were able to make their way to the helicopter. En route to the coast he encountered and successfully evaded additional hostile antiaircraft fire and, with fuel for only 5 minutes of flight remaining, landed safely aboard U.S.S. Jouett (DLG-29)."
 

Jolly Roger

Yes. I am a Pirate.
SteveG75 said:
For combat, I'll go with CAPT (then LCDR) Michael J. Estocin

Bing, Bing, Bing, we have a winner! CAPT Estocin is right. He had a Perry class frigate christened after him. The website that I was looking at indicated that he might still be alive and captive. I found this interesting:

Estocin's wingman observed the aircraft enter a 3500 feet undercast cloud layer in the inverted position. Maximum ground elevation in the area was 1,086 feet. The islands in the vicinity of Haiphong, where the aircraft was last seen, are sparsely populated, densely covered with foliage, and ideal for escape and evasion. No part of the ejection sequence was observed by the wingman, who was less than 1,000 feet from the aircraft throughout this period. The overcast cloud layer bottoms were lying on the ground which precluded observation of aircraft impact or immediate search of the area for the pilot. Radio contact was lost with Estocin after his aircraft entered the cloud layer.


Electronic and visual searches were conducted until dark and began again at the first light. No voice or other electronic communications were established, and visual search failed to locate the aircraft crash site or any sign of the pilot. No reports of pilot capture or aircraft downing in the area was reported by the Vietnamese following this incident. It was the considered opinion of the Commanding Officer that Estocin be carried as Missing In Action.


On April 26 and 27, Radio Hanoi broadcasted information indicating that Estocin may have been captured. U.S. intelligence sources reported that Estocin was alive in North Vietnam, as a prisoner of war and his status was changed to reflect this. An interesting side-note to Estocin's story is that one of his squadron mates, who actually wrote the citation application for Estocin's mission, never knew that there was the chance he had ejected. For the next 20 years, the squadron member believed no word had ever been surfaced on the fate of Michael Estocin. This is not in the least unusual, given the U.S. Government's conservative policy of releasing information on Americans who are missing. Much of the information publicly released is classified or incomplete. This would also apply even to military personnel who did not have a "need to know."


Estocin's family wrote and sent packages. In August, 1972, a package sent by Mike's sister was returned from Hanoi. All the contents were still in the package, but it had been opened and other items had been added. Added to the box was a crudely cut, hand-sewn felt bootie with two "M's" cut out of felt on it (Michael's wife's name is Maria). Inside the bootie were three hearts and two scraps of felt (The Estocins have three children). The Navy could not determine how this could have happened. Mike's family felt they were made by Mike and were heartened by this sign of his well-being.


In 1973, 591 American prisoners were released from North Vietnam. LCDR Estocin was not among them. Returned POWs heard his name in several camps, and sources reported that he was alive, still held prisoner. Hanoi denies any knowledge of Michael Estocin. He is among nearly 2500 Americans still missing from the Vietnam war.

http://members.tripod.com/~Firebase_Freedom/pow.html

I wonder if there is any credence to reports of POWs remaining in captivity?
 
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