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Rand study on USAF pilot retention

DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
There were quite a few dry spells in the middle.

I'll second this. I have two months from my JO fleet tour that I had 0 hours in, and that's from an airframe that wasn't struggling in actual airframe readiness at the time (MH-60S). Of note - I wasn't med down or in the bad graces of ops/training either... I did a few sims if that's worth anything - advanced a few X's in a syllabi but that's it.
 

PatrolFighter

Member
pilot
Pardon the ignorance but does VFA have an option of flying special interest hours? I don't know if it's a concept that even exists or whether it is feasible in a 1 or 2 seat aircraft.
 

PatrolFighter

Member
pilot
In P8 world we are given our quarterly flight hour grant to execute, call it 600 a quarter. The wing and weapons school don't own aircraft but also own aircrew (they are usually our evaluators, i.e. ARP and ORE) that still require 3710 proficiency and the Wing requires even stricter requirements from Group for pilot proficiency. We can add wing staff or patch wearers onto our flight schedule. Call it an 8 hour ASW exercise. I added one wing pilot and one weapons school AWO onto the flight. When they execute the mission the 8 hours are initially "charged" to the squadron and count against our 600 hour allotment but they are earmarked as special interest. At the end of the quarter we can "get back" those hours and fly them for free. So if I flew 600 hours that quarter but 200 of them were SI then I could execute another 200 hours because I was working for the Wing or WS. Essentially executing 800 hours that quarter.
 

PatrolFighter

Member
pilot
They do, but the lack of flying is usually due to aircraft availability, not lack of OPTAR.

I hear you. Material condition on the P8 side is famously bad. It's a brand new airframe but we can't find parts so we beg, borrow, and steal. Canning the one aircraft to keep the one next to it in the air is not ideal.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Those 800 hours sound nice, but when you consider 400 of them came in 12 months of workups and deployment (plus extra stuff I volunteered for) the daily math doesn't equal the aggregate math.

There were quite a few dry spells in the middle.
And there were many (if not almost all?) who did full workups and cruise and didn’t get 800.

Please understand, I'm not trying to say those are numbers you want to have. Just that, on an average, if one were to have ~800 hours, that's not abnormal across the fleet, which is interesting given the added challenge of VFA airframe availability.

My only point is that, while you are (rightfully so, IMO) complaining about the feast or famine of hours, it's not unique to VFA. Not that that should make anyone feel any better.
 

navyterp67

Well-Known Member
pilot
Totally understand that it's not just a VFA issue. Nobody these days arrives at their fleet squadron thinking they're going to get 40-hour months for three years. But to echo what @Python1287 and @wlawr005 have said, I can add a couple thoughts on VFA retention based on what I've seen.

At risk of sounding like a complaining millennial... a few years ago my squadron went through a safety workshop/seminar. We were in transition to our neglected Rhinos at the time (which I should probably add some stories about in the "Should I take that aircraft" thread for you guys) and my Training Officer brought up a question to the O-6 running the event. "How can we expect to be tactically proficient on cruise when our jets are barely flyable, we regularly face in-flight emergencies, and we're unable to achieve the tactical hard deck?" The O-6 essentially said "deal with it." Well, this Captain was wearing a 3000 hour patch and had been in the reserves since he was a JO. He proceeded to tell us how his reserve squadron had little notice that they were deploying and that they made it happen and they did well on deployment. He looked at our TO and said "you need to figure it out." Nevermind the fact that his squadron was filled solely with O-4s and O-5s with tons of experience and flight time. The complete disconnect was appalling, to say the least.

This is not an isolated event, and I bring that story up to highlight the tone-deaf approach of senior leadership. I get it, this is the military, and we work with what we have. But the complete apathy from a guy like that and many other leaders I've talked to about this issue doesn't really give JOs confidence that things will change or that leadership cares.

I have personally witnessed many senior leaders say how they've been through tough times and still made it happen, like the story above. Those were also the days when there was no credible threat and the most complex thing you had to worry about was BFM and basic intercepts by today's standards. The sheer complexity of our tactics and wide spread of mission sets these days make it impossible for aircrew to be good at their primary job, FLYING, with the hours they're getting. When guys have been struggling to get THD and they get their asses kicked during workups, I'm not surprised that they leave disgruntled, especially after hearing every O-4+ in the O Club talk about the "glory days." You can't tell me with a straight face that there is a severe lack of opportunities to "see that one again" when aircrew don't meet the bar, and many get a pass when they shouldn't.

I hate the fact that I don't have a solution to the flight hour/manning/maintenance problem, but something has to change.
 

navyterp67

Well-Known Member
pilot
I think I was at the same workshop/seminar 18 years ago. Spoiler alert: nothing productive will come from the discussion.

I'm sure that makes everyone feel better about the situation.

Oh, 100%. There were no illusions about that seminar. I simply used that story as an example of the nebulous "senior leadership doesn't care" concept that some people don't seem to hear over the sound of their silver oak leaves and eagles.
 

wlawr005

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
I'll further that argument by adding my astonishment that the Navy is completely satisfied with spending the amount of money they did to get 800 hours out of me. Sure, they'll get some ROI out of me as an instructor but almost anyone can go to Meridian and teach. They're gonna spend a hell of a lot more money teaching someone else to be a Division Lead. I'll furthur that with the fact you don't get good at something until you've been doing it a while, so who knows how long it'll take that person to actually be proficient.

The Navy's current answer is to start throwing as many guys as they can through the pipeline. My personal opinion is we need to address career milestones, especially in VFA, and change our up-or-out career timelines in order to retain the professional knowledge we paid for and increase our professional experience as a community.

I know, everyone is gonna saw that's how we've always done business or those changes have to be made at the congressional level. Doesn't mean they don't need to change. Our mission sets are too complex and too expensive to train to for us to keep turning over every three years.
 
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