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PSA - things I should have done....

DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
For some reason I thought FC stopped front end loading after getting sued, but maybe that was a separate suit.

EDIT: I'm wrong, those rat fucks still use front loads. So not only is that taking a large, large, large, LARGE amount of money from the investor over time, but an investor who learns more since their of early 20s (when they got sniped by FC) might stick with FC due to the sunk cost fallacy, among other things.

Yeah dude. They got sued and at the time were doing loads as high as 50%. Now it's "only" 5%. Still outrageous if people would just educate themselves. I also blame the people they hire as "financial advisors." They rely on veterans, but many of them have no undergraduate degree and have no idea what they are talking about other than their sales pitch. I genuinely don't think many of them realize they are scamming people which is just incredible.
 

Ektar

Brewing Pilot
pilot
Here's my two cents...

Make a budget! It doesn't have to be complex, but having a budget and estimate of what goes out versus comes in will go a long way to helping you become financially healthy. There are tons of budgeting methods and tools out there, find one that works for you and make one. One recommendation, don't make it draconian, you want to enjoy life and have fun.

I taught ROTC for a bit and always had new Ensigns asking for advice, one thing I always told them is that if you manage your money well in the Navy you may not become exorbitantly rich, but you will be comfortable.

All of the other advice in here is great, I've learned a few new things, thanks!

And First Command sounds like a horrible predatory company...I had never heard of them until now.
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
Here's my two cents...

Make a budget! It doesn't have to be complex, but having a budget and estimate of what goes out versus comes in will go a long way to helping you become financially healthy. There are tons of budgeting methods and tools out there, find one that works for you and make one. One recommendation, don't make it draconian, you want to enjoy life and have fun.

I taught ROTC for a bit and always had new Ensigns asking for advice, one thing I always told them is that if you manage your money well in the Navy you may not become exorbitantly rich, but you will be comfortable.

All of the other advice in here is great, I've learned a few new things, thanks!

And First Command sounds like a horrible predatory company...I had never heard of them until now.
My .02 on budgeting: just because the good folks at TI put them there you don't have to use all the buttons on your calculator. Round, conservative numbers are a good way to start. If you start worrying about anything past the hundreds place you're either in trouble or you're getting too OCD.
 

Notanaviator

Well-Known Member
Contributor
But I'd do it again. I'm just thankful I have the ability to do it.

Think this is a pretty underrated sentiment from this very good thread. If you're looking out longer term than your retirement and looking at value down the road for your kids and their kids, and look at the numbers for what kids coming out of just their bachelors degree have hanging around their neck in student loan debt, and the ability to have your kids escape without that is the sort of thing that creates generational wealth and, without exaggeration, creates the American Dream.

My Grandfather was kind of a jerk - had the means to pay for college, but didn't because he thought he was doing his kids a favor - my Dad worked himself through college (back when that sufficed), and joined the Public Health Service to pay for Med School. He was able to pay for six kids to pursue whatever undergrad they were able to get into and paid handsomely, but that gift has created more value for his kids and their families than they could ever earn on their own in the same period. If I can accomplish the same, and educate them on financial literacy by the time they leave my house, and encourage them to look at their schooling with a sober eye relative to cost/reward (i.e. if you want to be an artist, please don't go to a $60k/year school to pursue that dream, or better yet find a good paying job and do art as a hobby), I'll have succeeded.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Think this is a pretty underrated sentiment from this very good thread. If you're looking out longer term than your retirement and looking at value down the road for your kids and their kids, and look at the numbers for what kids coming out of just their bachelors degree have hanging around their neck in student loan debt, and the ability to have your kids escape without that is the sort of thing that creates generational wealth and, without exaggeration, creates the American Dream.

My Grandfather was kind of a jerk - had the means to pay for college, but didn't because he thought he was doing his kids a favor - my Dad worked himself through college (back when that sufficed), and joined the Public Health Service to pay for Med School. He was able to pay for six kids to pursue whatever undergrad they were able to get into and paid handsomely, but that gift has created more value for his kids and their families than they could ever earn on their own in the same period. If I can accomplish the same, and educate them on financial literacy by the time they leave my house, and encourage them to look at their schooling with a sober eye relative to cost/reward (i.e. if you want to be an artist, please don't go to a $60k/year school to pursue that dream, or better yet find a good paying job and do art as a hobby), I'll have succeeded.
If you raise them right, or are a master of guilt, having kids and ensuring they are educated enough for a well paying career, ensures there is someone to wipe your ass, listen to your stories for the umpteenth time, and wheel you down to the VA or military clinic in your old age. :(
 

villanelle

Nihongo dame desu
Contributor
My comment on kids was said with tongue in cheek as my kids bring me different kinds of riches. But they ain't cheap (how can little people eat so much... ketchup?!) and I haven't even got to college yet. But, to stick with my theme, there's more to life than just maximizing your retirement.

That said, I often wonder what the heck my friends without kids do with all their time and money (that I perceive them to have).


We are traveling (err... were traveling; I just got my refund for Navy Notre Dame in Dublin), eating well, drinking very old scotch, sleeping late, planning on retiring early, reading books without interruption, and not cleaning Cheeto dust off our sofa cushions. (Okay, that last one is a lie. We are totally still doing that.)

~~~

I'd encourage anyone who thinks that buying real estate is the best path to wealth to please do some research. Generally, most RE investors look at the 1% rule--your monthly rent should be 1% or more of the purchase price. (This accounts for vacancies, damages, maintenance, insurance, property taxes, etc.) So if that $500,000 home won't fetch $5,000/mo in rent, it's not a good investment property, and that's still basically true whether you live in it for a few years or not. There are very few markets in the US right now that even come CLOSE to that. In our current neighborhood, a $1.5 million house, which would need to bring in $15,000!!! in rent to get to 1%, would rent for maybe $4500, so less than 1/3 of that recommended amount. (Oh, add "Living in Old Town Alexandria" to the list of what people without kids spend their time and money on!)

Sure, the home could appreciate astronomically. It could also... not. And it's an extremely ill-liquid asset. You know what else could appreciate astronomically? The money you put into a boring mutual fund because your rent costs are far, far, far lower than your home ownership costs.

For investing, Bogleheads is a great place to start, though their forums seem to be largely people making half a million dollars a year and feeling proud of themselves for only buying a new Tesla every other year instead of annually. But the investing info is solid, and The Boglehead's Guide to Investing book is a great place to start for a noob. It's what I read when I was transitioning away from FC**** (I know, I know!) and felt investing was entirely overwhelming. As it turns out, it's super easy and when you make it complex, you almost always reduce your returns over the long run.

Also, keep in mind the 4% rule when trying to sort out what your money needs to look like in order to have the future you are aiming for. While no one knows what the markets or the world will do going forward, this is generally considered a safe (as safe as one can be with the stock market) withdraw rate. (Cue jokes about safe withdraw... I'll wait.) That means that you can withdraw 4% of your investments nearly in perpetuity and with annual inflation increases and have almost no chance of running out of money. That's 4% of the starting number, regardless of what the market does (other than the inflation increase). So if you want to be able to spend $80k/yr in retirement (and keep in mind you may well have a paid-off house by then or at some point so your money will go a lot further), you need $2m invested on the day you stop working for pay. (If you like to nerd-out on this stuff, https://www.firecalc.com/ has a interesting simulator that allows you to really play with various inputs based on projected spending decreases like paying off a house, or income increases like a pension kicking in, etc., and then it and then it makes a projection on what your finances will look like when you die--the date for which is another input you can play with.)

This makes it fairly easy and far less intimidating to try to figure out how much one needs in order to retire. Many calculations are based on a % of salary, but that's asinine and nonsensical. If I make $100k/yr and spending every last penny of that, then no percent (other than 100%) is going to to work for me. And if I make $100k and live in a van by the river (by the way, how is Bates these days?) and spend $10k per year, then all those calculations make no sense for me, either. But they would say that in both cases, I need the same about to retire on. Clearly, these calculations should be based on spending, not earning, yet many lazy methods don't do that.

**** Confession time. I worked for FC for a brief time. They snagged Husband as a client right out of the boat school and I married into it. When we got married, we went for the annual review and because we'd just moved, I was looking for a job and got hired by our agent as an admin assistant based on that meeting. My basic observation was that there were actually a lot of great people working as agents, but not for very long. The great human beings weren't very successful because they weren't willing to whore themselves, make people uncomfortable enough that they would fork over their contacts just to make the pressure stop, shamelessly promote themselves, and skirt right up to the edge of misrepresenting themselves and FC's products and policies. Consequently, they didn't bring in enough business to survive. This was the case with the agent I worked for. Super nice guy, actually. I think he was an agent for about a year before leaving. Because not only do they pressure clients to bring in more clients, they pressure agents to bring in more agents. So there's a very hard sell for them as well and nice people get sucked into believing they can do it, when they probably can't if they generally want to stay nice. (I'm sure there are exceptions, blah, blah, disclaimer, blah.)
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
Try to max TSP early and once you do don’t stop maxing it.

Setup 529 accounts for the kids early.

Look into well known places like Vanguard or Fidelity for IRAs/Roth.

I’m very pro buying real estate, but don’t buy real estate blindly. Have an exit strategy for any house you’re looking to buy to live in, whether that’s to rent it out or sell it after you’re done with your tour. Have idea of how much an equivalent the place you’re looking to buy rents for before you purchase it so you’re not surprised if there’s a difference between your rental income and mortgage if you rent it out down the road.

If you know you’re getting out soonish and want to stay in the area you’re in, considering buying a house while on AD. It’ll be much easier to get financing than it would be during your first year in transition.
 

HokiePilot

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Try to max TSP early and once you do don’t stop maxing it.

The one thing I wish I had understood earlier is tax planning. I maxed out my Vanguard Roth IRA since commissioning, but never really understood the TSP. It was only the last two years in the Navy when I used it and then maxed it out.

Normally, at the end of every month, I would just roll leftover money into a normal Vanguard investment account. It was hardly the worst use of money, but could be a lot better.

Right now, about half my money is in tax advantaged accounts and half not. That money has been somewhat useful the past year transitioning away from the Navy, but I wish most of it was in the TSP. Now, I'm maxing out my Roth 401k, even if it means pulling some money from my savings for living expenses.
 

RedFive

Well-Known Member
pilot
None
Contributor
The Simple Path to Wealth. This guy started a blog many years ago because his daughter was entering the peace corps after college and he wanted to leave her financial advice to follow in case she didn't find her way back to normal life before he was gone -- or at least that's how I remember him describing it. He wanted her to have Fuck You Money. Anyways, I found it very interesting and informative. He covers many topics and he's the guy who turned me on to Vanguard and Index funds. Definitely worth bookmarking.
 

AllYourBass

I'm okay with the events unfolding currently
pilot
The Simple Path to Wealth. This guy started a blog many years ago because his daughter was entering the peace corps after college and he wanted to leave her financial advice to follow in case she didn't find her way back to normal life before he was gone -- or at least that's how I remember him describing it. He wanted her to have Fuck You Money. Anyways, I found it very interesting and informative. He covers many topics and he's the guy who turned me on to Vanguard and Index funds. Definitely worth bookmarking.

Naturally this post introduces me to that riveting blog after my quiet(ish) 12-hour SDO day is already done
 

SynixMan

HKG Based Artificial Excrement Pilot
pilot
Contributor
The one thing I wish I had understood earlier is tax planning. I maxed out my Vanguard Roth IRA since commissioning, but never really understood the TSP. It was only the last two years in the Navy when I used it and then maxed it out.

Normally, at the end of every month, I would just roll leftover money into a normal Vanguard investment account. It was hardly the worst use of money, but could be a lot better.

Right now, about half my money is in tax advantaged accounts and half not. That money has been somewhat useful the past year transitioning away from the Navy, but I wish most of it was in the TSP. Now, I'm maxing out my Roth 401k, even if it means pulling some money from my savings for living expenses.

Of note, all new folks are now under the Blended Retirement System, so they're getting automatic 1% contributions and a up to a 4% match (4+1=5 total). I think I was putting 6ish% in since becoming and ENS, but I wish I would've done 10% from the start (+5 from Uncle now) in one of the L-Funds and just not thought about it. The Government does a lot of dumb stuff, but TSP and the funds are pretty good.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
Of note, all new folks are now under the Blended Retirement System, so they're getting automatic 1% contributions and a up to a 4% match (4+1=5 total). I think I was putting 6ish% in since becoming and ENS, but I wish I would've done 10% from the start (+5 from Uncle now) in one of the L-Funds and just not thought about it. The Government does a lot of dumb stuff, but TSP and the funds are pretty good.
'Getting' 1% is a misnomer. The pay system automatically deducts 1% unless the SVM adjusts it.

Match doesn't kick in until 2 years of service. There's a bonus kicker at 12 years to make up the difference and serve as a retention tool.

Given two people who invest the same % of income into TSP and retire at 20 years O5, the blended system is a pay cut of about $500,000 in 2018 dollars towards retirement.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
Sure, the home could appreciate astronomically. It could also... not. And it's an extremely ill-liquid asset. You know what else could appreciate astronomically? The money you put into a boring mutual fund because your rent costs are far, far, far lower than your home ownership costs.
Rental cost is not far lower than living costs in most areas. Where I live my mortgage + taxes is about $500 lower than I'd pay in rent for a similar property. If you're Dink then that's one thing, but finding a 3-4 bed single family for the kids runs a pretty penny.

The real equalizer is closing costs and mortgage financing fees. It takes on average 7 years to break even on that.

The kicker is that you always have to have shelter - it's a basic need. Retirement funds don't pay out until 59.5, and if you're always renting you'll need enough saved up to cover that cost (which amounts to $2 million to live a middle class lifestyle from age 60 to death assuming no other pension). It would take 20 years of max annual investment into TSP and another 17 years of waiting to get over $2M (or 32 years of straight investments).

This is not to say that one shouldn't invest, but that it's not a get rich quick scheme.
 
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Pags

N/A
pilot
'Getting' 1% is a misnomer. The pay system automatically deducts 1% unless the SVM adjusts it.

Match doesn't kick in until 2 years of service. There's a bonus kicker at 12 years to make up the difference and serve as a retention tool.

Given two people who invest the same % of income into TSP and retire at 20 years O5, the blended system is a pay cut of about $500,000 in 2018 dollars towards retirement.
Other side of the coin: as a guy who didn't put in 20 not having the option of the BRS cost 11yrs of matching. BRS is better for most service members.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
Other side of the coin: as a guy who didn't put in 20 not having the option of the BRS cost 11yrs of matching. BRS is better for most service members.
I'd be careful about extrapolating your pay and experience in naval aviation to 'most servicemembers.'

The average time a person spends enlisted is 6.7 years, and that includes retirees. Needless to say, the 2-4 years of 5% match an E4 / E5 gets (assuming he remembers to adjust his contributions) is not doing a whole lot. It's theoretically better than 0, but if I were a 20 year old junior enlisted I'd be saving all my excess cash to afford transitioning out of the Navy when I go to college on the GI bill in 2 years.
 
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