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PSA - things I should have done....

P

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N/A
pilot
OscarMyers said:
Ketchup is one of the basic food groups! My four year old uses fish sticks and chicken nuggets as a vehicle to get more ketchup in his mouth. Kind of like a nugget spoon.... I'm just banking on a solid return on investment, hopefully at least one of of them is going to be successful.
Click to expand...
10yrs ago I should've bought stock in Heinz
 
DanMa1156

DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
AllYourBass said:
Take a bit to look into the expense ratios of each of the funds you are contributing to. The tricky thing about high expense ratio (i.e., high-fee) funds is that you don't get a neat little deduction on your statement every month titled "Management Fee" or something like that. Rather, the gains you make are just...less. Over the course of a long time (e.g., the life of a retirement account), high expense ratios can take a large cut out of your total principal, and those funds have no track record of performing any better than other hands-off index funds available to the average consumer.

That said, I think you also do get nice little fees charged by First Command for every contribution (forgot how they manifest, but it's something like "Custodian Fee").

Overall, FC's whole schtick is, "You're busy saving the world, let us give back to you by helping you take care of your money." Then they tie your money up in expensive, inefficient funds that are extremely difficult to get out of, and they sway young kids into buying trash whole life policies while they're at it.

A newbie investor could put very little effort into learning how to dump a monthly allocation of money into a set-and-forget Vanguard index fund and never look back at it again, should that be their desire -- and they'd likely come out with a LOT more when it was time to withdraw funds.

Edit to add: I just helped a friend transition to Vanguard from First Command, and her ~$100K of savings was split across something like 25 separate mutual fund tickers with like one to six thousand dollars in each one. Her statement she received from First Command was absolutely daunting. I'm going to wager that a company that has to diversify across 20-25 different mutual funds is probably making investing deliberately difficult for the consumer, thereby increasing the attractiveness of "just letting First Command keep doing what they're doing." But that's a completely uneducated hunch on my part.
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All of this, plus, if I recall, they do front end loads, whereby they are taking 5% off the top before even investing it. That's a ridiculous fee. For comparison, the expense ratio with no load in TSP is like .038 and Vanguard is .04 on many of their funds and .03 on some of their ETFs (not garbage ones: think S&P 500).

Edit: looks like @drgndrvr beat me to it.

Also: take a look at all your funds. I had one student come to me convinced FC was doing her right for retirement. When we opened up the accounts, she was getting a 5% front end load and the money was being split nearly evenly in a high fee (over 1% expense ratio) mutual fund and a checking account. Yes... a checking account. Apparently the explanation was it was a good savings to have in case she wanted to buy in on more insurance or something. Total garbage; it should be criminal.
 
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FLGUY

FLGUY

“Technique only”
pilot
Contributor
RandomGoat1248 said:
When I checked into Corpus, one of the mandatory in-briefing items is a FirstCommand sales pitch. I've wondered how the hell that is legal.
Click to expand...
I remember that briefing. They goaded us in by starting off with breakfast tacos.
 
AllYourBass

AllYourBass

I'm okay with the events unfolding currently
pilot
DanMa1156 said:
All of this, plus, if I recall, they do front end loads, whereby they are taking 5% off the top before even investing it. That's a ridiculous fee. For comparison, the expense ratio with no load in TSP is like .038 and Vanguard is .04 on many of their funds and .03 on some of their ETFs (not garbage ones: think S&P 500).

Edit: looks like @drgndrvr beat me to it.

Also: take a look at all your funds. I had one student come to me convinced FC was doing her right for retirement. When we opened up the accounts, she was getting a 5% front end load and the money was being split nearly evenly in a high fee (over 1% expense ratio) mutual fund and a checking account. Yes... a checking account. Apparently the explanation was it was a good savings to have in case she wanted to buy in on more insurance or something. Total garbage; it should be criminal.
Click to expand...

For some reason I thought FC stopped front end loading after getting sued, but maybe that was a separate suit.

EDIT: I'm wrong, those rat fucks still use front loads. So not only is that taking a large, large, large, LARGE amount of money from the investor over time, but an investor who learns more since their of early 20s (when they got sniped by FC) might stick with FC due to the sunk cost fallacy, among other things.
 
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AllYourBass

AllYourBass

I'm okay with the events unfolding currently
pilot
I've littered Internet forums with my venom for First Command enough, so I won't belabor it much longer here (at this point, anybody searching "First Command" in the search bar will find this thread -- not that the search bar is ever used).

But here's where I learned to hate them.

At my last command, a friend recommended all of JOPA to her "adviser." She and her husband (dual mil) have been with First Command for years (still are today), and her FC rep was a Facebook friend. I expressed vague interest in hearing the spiel, and the advisor texted me the next day to set up a coffee chat. She insisted my wife be there and that I provide an extraordinary amount of information about my assets, desired budget, etc.

A few of the JOs who set up appointments with her (including a couple who went first that day) I know for a fact were quite ignorant about investing, but they were doing just fine with the basic prescriptions of "max your TSP and an IRA!" I'm not Warren Buffett, but I probably knew more than my adviser was counting on.

I don't care who knows here, so here's my asset allocation: $5K always floating in checking, $8-10K always available in a HYSA account, two maxed Roth IRAs vested in VTSAX, TSP split between C/S, and then extra money (not a heaping ton left...) split 95% into a brokerage account vested in VTSAX and 5% to a day/swing trading TD Ameritrade account to feed a hobby I picked up during quarantine. Yes, VTSAX and C/S are a lot of equities, roger that.

Meeting 1: Except for the TD Ameritrade account, that was what I showed the adviser, and she basically shook her head and told me how I had it all wrong. She insisted that I was busy saving the world and should allow her to optimize my plan and protect my family's future. She insisted she was taking no fees, and that merely setting up my account would get her paid by First Command -- so I basically had a free financial advisor! She got to know plenty of little personal details about me and my wife (e.g., future travel plans) that she could reference later for savings goals (later that day she texted my buddy and I, who had also met with her that day, inviting us to a barbecue).

I knew I wasn't going to be a customer, but somehow I wasted the time setting up Meeting 2. Beats maintenance meetings, I guess.

Meeting 2: I met with her again the next week and she showed me some customized PowerPoint charts showing the astronomical return I could expect with a whole life policy, repeatedly anchoring on the "guaranteed returns" in addition to the peace of mind of extra health insurance so I wouldn't burden my wife if I drew the short straw in a helo some day. It was during this meeting that I started asking pointed questions about the funds she suggested. I pulled them up right there on Yahoo! Finance/MarketWatch and went through some of the numbers. Why was she recommending I liquidate my low-cost Vanguard assets and transition them to higher-cost funds with similar (or worse) results? Why was she insisting on whole life, when those policies are basically only used by a.) rich people seeking tax havens or b.) investors who bought those on recommendation instead of something better?

I was polite and patient with this line of questioning, but she eventually said something along the lines of, "It sounds like you want to micromanage your own finances."

Meeting over, but I got a free coffee and a pen.

---------

I think there is a wide gap between what a new investor THINKS is the required workload to maintain a diversified portfolio and what a First Command sales rep will tell them. They use fear and ignorance to peddle subpar, confusing products, and the longer a client has been with them, the deeper those claws dig. And those decisions can all be complete by the end of meeting two, because that's the checkpoint at which you hand over documents ceding control of your account information to your First Command adviser that you would have filled out prior to the second meeting.

Thanks for scrolling past my TED talk.

tl;dr First Command is "better than not investing" like walking out the front gate and buying a Mustang is "better than not driving"
 
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P

Pags

N/A
pilot
AllYourBass said:
I've littered Internet forums with my venom for First Command enough, so I won't belabor it much longer here (at this point, anybody searching "First Command" in the search bar will find this thread -- not that the search bar is ever used).

But here's where I learned to hate them.

At my last command, a friend recommended all of JOPA to her "adviser." She and her husband (dual mil) have been with First Command for years (still are today), and her FC rep was a Facebook friend. I expressed vague interest in hearing the spiel, and the advisor texted me the next day to set up a coffee chat. She insisted my wife be there and that I provide an extraordinary amount of information about my assets, desired budget, etc.

A few of the JOs who set up appointments with her (including a couple who went first that day) I know for a fact were quite ignorant about investing, but they were doing just fine with the basic prescriptions of "max your TSP and an IRA!" I'm not Warren Buffett, but I probably knew more than my adviser was counting on.

I don't care who knows here, so here's my asset allocation: $8-10K always available in a checking account, two maxed Roth IRAs vested in VTSAX, TSP split between C/S, and then extra money (not a heaping ton left...) split 95% into a brokerage account vested in VTSAX and 5% to a day/swing trading TD Ameritrade account to feed a hobby I picked up during quarantine. Yes, VTSAX and C/S are a lot of equities, roger that.

Meeting 1: Except for the TD Ameritrade account, that was what I showed the adviser, and she basically shook her head and told me how I had it all wrong. She insisted that I was busy saving the world and should allow her to optimize my plan and protect my family's future. She insisted she was taking no fees, and that merely setting up my account would get her paid by First Command -- so I basically had a free financial advisor! She got to know plenty of little personal details about my wife and I (e.g., future travel plans) that she could reference later for savings goals (later that day she texted my buddy and I, who had also met with her that day, inviting us to a barbecue).

I knew I wasn't going to be a customer, but somehow I wasted the time setting up Meeting 2. Beats maintenance meetings, I guess.

Meeting 2: I met with her again the next week and she showed me some customized PowerPoint charts showing the astronomical return I could expect with a whole life policy, repeatedly anchoring on the "guaranteed returns" in addition to the peace of mind of extra health insurance so I wouldn't burden my wife if I drew the short straw in a helo some day. It was during this meeting that I started asking pointed questions about the funds she suggested. I pulled them up right there on Yahoo! Finance/MarketWatch and went through some of the numbers. Why was she recommending I liquidate my low-cost Vanguard assets and transition them to higher-cost funds with similar (or worse) results? Why was she insisting on whole life, when those policies are basically only used by a.) rich people seeking tax havens or b.) investors who bought those on recommendation instead of something better?

I was polite and patient with this line of questioning, but she eventually said something along the lines of, "It sounds like you want to micromanage your own finances."

Meeting over, but I got a free coffee and a pen.

---------

I think there is a wide gap between what a new investor THINKS is the required workload to maintain a diversified portfolio and what a First Command sales rep will tell them. They use fear and ignorance to peddle subpar, confusing products, and the longer a client has been with them, the deeper those claws dig. And those decisions can all be complete by the end of meeting two, because that's the checkpoint at which you hand over documents ceding control of your account information to your First Command adviser that you would have filled out prior to the second meeting.

Thanks for scrolling past my TED talk.

tl;dr First Command is "better than not investing" like walking out the front gate and buying a Mustang is "better than not driving"
Click to expand...
Good stuff and your hatred of FC and warnings to others are well placed and intended.

BLUF for the FNGs: shop around for your investment help and don't settle on the first thing that comes along unless that first thing is TSP.

Ages ago I had saving bonds that my dad got for me when he quit smoking and put that money into bonds. These bonds matured about the same time I had a HS math teacher teach us about compound interest. My folks said, "the cash from these bonds is yours, what are you going to do with it?". I think I surprised them to no end when I said "invest it." They insisted I visit a few investment places in town and "see the watches." I got a lot of perplexed looks from local investment folks in suits at the 18yr kid with long hair and baggy pants (it was the 90s) asking about returns, etc. One of these guys was a younger guy just starting his own agency and he didn't bat an eye at my looks or questions. He answered them all and offered good solutions. 22yrs later and that guy still handles my family's money. When I went GS and had access to TSP he said "put most of your money in there, that L cycle thing looks great!" I trust him to look at the data and to provide me with the least bad answer and his answer isn't always "buy my stuff" which has built a lot of trust.

When I got commissioned I ended up at some FC "buy you young fellas pizza beer" thing. That guys spiel was the same as others have indicated and the FC guy didn't like my line of questioning and we ended on a less than friendly, "enjoy the free pizza and beer." Which I did.

BLOB: since I think all the FNGs have TSP these days put your money there instead of FC. If you max that out or want something a bit different go shop around. There are plenty of local shops that will do you better than FC.
 
ABMD

ABMD

Bullets don't fly without Supply
OscarMyers said:
Ketchup is one of the basic food groups! My four year old uses fish sticks and chicken nuggets as a vehicle to get more ketchup in his mouth. Kind of like a nugget spoon.... I'm just banking on a solid return on investment, hopefully at least one of of them is going to be successful.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking the same thing. I have 5, fingers crossed one turns pro in some sport. ?
 
scoolbubba

scoolbubba

Brett327 gargles ballsacks
pilot
Contributor
AllYourBass said:
I've littered Internet forums with my venom for First Command enough, so I won't belabor it much longer here (at this point, anybody searching "First Command" in the search bar will find this thread -- not that the search bar is ever used).

But here's where I learned to hate them.

At my last command, a friend recommended all of JOPA to her "adviser." She and her husband (dual mil) have been with First Command for years (still are today), and her FC rep was a Facebook friend. I expressed vague interest in hearing the spiel, and the advisor texted me the next day to set up a coffee chat. She insisted my wife be there and that I provide an extraordinary amount of information about my assets, desired budget, etc.

A few of the JOs who set up appointments with her (including a couple who went first that day) I know for a fact were quite ignorant about investing, but they were doing just fine with the basic prescriptions of "max your TSP and an IRA!" I'm not Warren Buffett, but I probably knew more than my adviser was counting on.

I don't care who knows here, so here's my asset allocation: $5K always floating in checking, $8-10K always available in a HYSA account, two maxed Roth IRAs vested in VTSAX, TSP split between C/S, and then extra money (not a heaping ton left...) split 95% into a brokerage account vested in VTSAX and 5% to a day/swing trading TD Ameritrade account to feed a hobby I picked up during quarantine. Yes, VTSAX and C/S are a lot of equities, roger that.

Meeting 1: Except for the TD Ameritrade account, that was what I showed the adviser, and she basically shook her head and told me how I had it all wrong. She insisted that I was busy saving the world and should allow her to optimize my plan and protect my family's future. She insisted she was taking no fees, and that merely setting up my account would get her paid by First Command -- so I basically had a free financial advisor! She got to know plenty of little personal details about me and my wife (e.g., future travel plans) that she could reference later for savings goals (later that day she texted my buddy and I, who had also met with her that day, inviting us to a barbecue).

I knew I wasn't going to be a customer, but somehow I wasted the time setting up Meeting 2. Beats maintenance meetings, I guess.

Meeting 2: I met with her again the next week and she showed me some customized PowerPoint charts showing the astronomical return I could expect with a whole life policy, repeatedly anchoring on the "guaranteed returns" in addition to the peace of mind of extra health insurance so I wouldn't burden my wife if I drew the short straw in a helo some day. It was during this meeting that I started asking pointed questions about the funds she suggested. I pulled them up right there on Yahoo! Finance/MarketWatch and went through some of the numbers. Why was she recommending I liquidate my low-cost Vanguard assets and transition them to higher-cost funds with similar (or worse) results? Why was she insisting on whole life, when those policies are basically only used by a.) rich people seeking tax havens or b.) investors who bought those on recommendation instead of something better?

I was polite and patient with this line of questioning, but she eventually said something along the lines of, "It sounds like you want to micromanage your own finances."

Meeting over, but I got a free coffee and a pen.

---------

I think there is a wide gap between what a new investor THINKS is the required workload to maintain a diversified portfolio and what a First Command sales rep will tell them. They use fear and ignorance to peddle subpar, confusing products, and the longer a client has been with them, the deeper those claws dig. And those decisions can all be complete by the end of meeting two, because that's the checkpoint at which you hand over documents ceding control of your account information to your First Command adviser that you would have filled out prior to the second meeting.

Thanks for scrolling past my TED talk.

tl;dr First Command is "better than not investing" like walking out the front gate and buying a Mustang is "better than not driving"
Click to expand...


One of the individuals in question is no longer a member of a VT reserve unit, partially due to his FC shenanigans. There was some other stuff, but I think had he not been trying to prey on students, he wouldn't have gotten the boot so hard and fast.

The real bottom line here: be VERY wary of someone SELLING you something that you didn't ask for. Whole life insurance has a purpose, but for most* people, especially most people in the military and making military wages, it doesn't make sense. You're paying astronomical fees to essentially buy bonds. You could do that on your own. Plenty of "CFPs" will reach out to you through the mil network to sell you a whole life policy. Look at the fee structure very carefully before you start agreeing to give anyone money on your behalf.

My wife got sold a whole life policy before we were married. I started looking at the money she was "investing" and the fees they were charging and started asking a lot of questions. At one point during a phone call where we were both on the line, her 'financial advisor' asked if they could speak in private. Uh...no. I eventually got to the point of "why did you charge my wife 50% of her first year's premiums in fees if you were just investing in bonds" and got the same answer you did. "It sounds like you want to micromanage your finances." Yea, that's me. We cut ties as quickly as possible after that phone call.

If you are going to get a financial advisor, start off with buying time with a fiduciary. CFPs/CFAs come in all flavors and run the spectrum from great to people who are just swindling 1% of your assets and moving money into their pocket by selling you something. 1% compounded over time for an actively managed portfolio turns out to be a yuuuuuge fucking pile of money when you run that out to age 65-70, especially when most people can beat an actively managed fund with indexes/ETFs/low cost mutuals. A fiduciary is legally required to give you a higher standard of care than a CFA/CFP. Find a good one in your area and pay for a couple hours of their time to go through everything and lay out a strategy for what you wanna do with your money and your life.
 
ABMD

ABMD

Bullets don't fly without Supply
scoolbubba said:
The daisy squeeze packs take all the guesswork out. I can apply the perfect amount of sour cream to the individual bite of taco. It's very scientific and precise.

The CFA heinz ketchup packets are proof that Jesus talks directly to those people.
Click to expand...

CFA = God's chicken
 
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