O-4/DH Selection vs 2FOS

[SynixMan]

Have PERS43 said anything about FY20 stats for OP-T?

 

[DanMa1156]

If you FOSx2, all OBLISERV is waived. You exit on timeline, per (I believe) the MILPERSMAN. You do have to affiliate with the reserves (SELRES, IRR-VTU, or IRR-ASP) to get the severance pay, unless you’re ineligible for some reason.

Does it have to be a USN gig? Can I go straight to the Air National Guard?

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

I only ask that because it seems that alot of Marines are intentionally punting 0-4 boards vice actively trying to get promoted. I.e. As long as you did the minimum required things (PME, Picture, PFT, Pistol) You’re more than likely going to make 0-4 as an Aviator in the Corps. As long as you didn’t have consistently poor fitreps (...which based on flight and ground job progression isn’t ridiculously hard). There are always a hand full of guys who get passed for unknown reasons but that number is usually pretty low.

Is this also a thing for Navy guys trying to intentionally 2xFOS for O-4 - presumably wanting to go airlines with a fat severance check in hand? Doesn't seem like a bad idea - especially for FTS and AD dudes lucky enough to be on flying orders with currency. Do they somehow demand a 'P' or some other hit to guarantee a 2x FOS on an otherwise decent record? Is this actually a thing?

 

[SynixMan]

Is this also a thing for Navy guys trying to intentionally 2xFOS for O-4 - presumably wanting to go airlines with a fat severance check in hand? Doesn't seem like a bad idea - especially for FTS and AD dudes lucky enough to be on flying orders with currency. Do they somehow demand a 'P' or some other hit to guarantee a 2x FOS on an otherwise decent record? Is this actually a thing?

Yes, I know guys who've asked to be ranked low with the intention of ensuring they didn't promote. If the stars align timing wise, it can be quite a good deal.

 

[DanMa1156]

Is this also a thing for Navy guys trying to intentionally 2xFOS for O-4 - presumably wanting to go airlines with a fat severance check in hand? Doesn't seem like a bad idea - especially for FTS and AD dudes lucky enough to be on flying orders with currency. Do they somehow demand a 'P' or some other hit to guarantee a 2x FOS on an otherwise decent record? Is this actually a thing?

Had a long talk with a valuable mentor of mine on this very topic. Mostly we disussed the integrity of the process - it's called "involuntary separation" pay after all - it shouldn't be someone who is purposely bombing to cheat the taxpayer. I ended up going all in on the board for this year and think I'll make O-4 but not DH and will probably resign anyway. We will certainly see, but I sometimes wonder if I made the right decision - is this an integrity issue, or should I "not hate the player, hate the game?" I have genuinely tried to do right over my career and I am often frustrated with the results that those who do not seem to get ahead, and this is one more example of it.

 

[SynixMan]

Had a long talk with a valuable mentor of mine on this very topic. Mostly we disussed the integrity of the process - it's called "involuntary separation" pay after all - it shouldn't be someone who is purposely bombing to cheat the taxpayer. I ended up going all in on the board for this year and think I'll make O-4 but not DH and will probably resign anyway. We will certainly see, but I sometimes wonder if I made the right decision - is this an integrity issue, or should I "not hate the player, hate the game?" I have genuinely tried to do right over my career and I am often frustrated with the results that those who do not seem to get ahead, and this is one more example of it.

I get where you're coming from on this, but I just don't see it being a big deal nor an integrity thing. The really "good deal" would be waiting out a 2xFOS on flying shore duty, accruing flight hours, sleeping in your own bed every night, and taking $75k at the end. I've seen a guy do this, but he was a VFA bubba with really weird timing. You have to get your in-zone look results before getting orders to sea duty to fall under MILPERSMAN "not able to issue orders" caveat.

Everyone else, let's call it 99% of aviators, who pop a 1xFOS are already in a sea duty job or have orders written. At that point, the Navy is winning.

 

[Gatordev]

I'm neutral on this. The Navy changed the rules to get their extra pound of flesh, and "you" signed on the dotted line accepting that. However, I'm pretty sure the Navy has never, in any official capacity, explained that "8 years" doesn't really mean 8 years, so if you get a little extra money so the Navy can get more than 8 years out of you? Meh.

Small point of order...FTS don't get a severence. They get what is essentially an interest-free loan.

 

[scoolbubba]

The navy can and will change the rules at any point to whatever suits them.

If the rules allow it, it’s not unethical.

 

[A Day In The Life]

Is this also a thing for Navy guys trying to intentionally 2xFOS for O-4 - presumably wanting to go airlines with a fat severance check in hand? Doesn't seem like a bad idea - especially for FTS and AD dudes lucky enough to be on flying orders with currency. Do they somehow demand a 'P' or some other hit to guarantee a 2x FOS on an otherwise decent record? Is this actually a thing?

When I was going through advanced, IPs were purposefully not submitting a photograph in order to 2xFOS.

I don't know if that still works.

 

[SlickAg]

Had a long talk with a valuable mentor of mine on this very topic. Mostly we disussed the integrity of the process - it's called "involuntary separation" pay after all - it shouldn't be someone who is purposely bombing to cheat the taxpayer. I ended up going all in on the board for this year and think I'll make O-4 but not DH and will probably resign anyway. We will certainly see, but I sometimes wonder if I made the right decision - is this an integrity issue, or should I "not hate the player, hate the game?" I have genuinely tried to do right over my career and I am often frustrated with the results that those who do not seem to get ahead, and this is one more example of it.

That’s awesome that you have a mentor that you trust like that.

I would consider finding some more mentors.

The only person who’s going to take care of you, is YOU.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

No integrity issue whatsoever. If you were career designated (don’t know if that’s service specific terminology) and they decide not to promote you, they owe you severance. Period.

 

[LAMPS Ninja]

Small point of order...FTS don't get a severence. They get what is essentially an interest-free loan.

I think that goes for Active Duty, too.

If I read the instruction correctly (a few years ago when they got me), the money is only required to be paid back if there’s a pension at the end, though. And as it turns out, VA disability payments also don’t actually get paid until the “indebtedness” is gone.

 

[Gatordev]

I think that goes for Active Duty, too.

If I read the instruction correctly (a few years ago when they got me), the money is only required to be paid back if there’s a pension at the end, though. And as it turns out, VA disability payments also don’t actually get paid until the “indebtedness” is gone.

Unfortunately, I know you know better than most. The pension part makes sense, though.

I did have a FTS First Class that was getting booted for medical just prior to 18 years and he was being told he'd have to pay back the severance and he wasn't going to be medically retired. The whole thing was a crap way to treat a guy. I PCS'ed before hearing how it all finally went down.

 

[Flash]

If I read the instruction correctly (a few years ago when they got me), the money is only required to be paid back if there’s a pension at the end, though. And as it turns out, VA disability payments also don’t actually get paid until the “indebtedness” is gone.

Yes, any retirement from the military or VA disability will be used to pay back the sep pay.

 

[Meatloaf]

Does it have to be a USN gig? Can I go straight to the Air National Guard?

You can go straight to ANG and still get the severance. You may have to fight a bit for it, but it's doable. I did it.