Nontraditional start career advice

[OscarMyers]

I am looking for some lessons learned career advice from any priors E's there. Currently 29 years old with 10 years in the Navy and will be commissioning this summer as an SNFO. I understand I'm in a different boat then the majority of my soon to be peers, but regardless this is who i will be competing with for advancement. Any personal experiences, both good and bad are welcomed. Im ready to hit the ground running, just want to make sure its in the right direction. I appreciate any assistance you can provide.

 

[MIDNJAC]

I'd say keep your head down, study hard, and don't try to wow anyone in flight school with your prior enlisted time. There will come a time when it will make a difference, but it won't mean much in the VT's, and nobody really cares either way. You may have some military life guidance to provide to your fellow ENSry, but tracom life is so seperated from things like leadership, sailors, etc that most of it will probably be irrelevant for a couple years. That being said, you haven't gotten to the place you are in by not being a hard-charger, so make sure that your attitude while in the tracom reflects that. I saw priors whine about things being different, not like the fleet, not like their last command, etc etc etc, and trust me when I say that this is counter-productive. It is what it is, and it won't be the same, so just know that going into it. I think it is hard for guys like you who have a whole bunch of experience to go from being senior petty officers with a lot of respect and responsibility, right back down to the bottom of the totem pole as a new ENS with no experience on the flying side of the house. If you can avoid being bitter about that, I think you will have won most of the battle.

I will caveat everything I say above with the fact that I'm just another JO, who bases my advice solely on things I have seen in the last 4 years, so there are others who are more qualified to talk to this (especially guys here with prior experience). But it is my take on things anyway.

 

[Brett327]

I am looking for some lessons learned career advice from any priors E's there. Currently 29 years old with 10 years in the Navy and will be commissioning this summer as an SNFO. I understand I'm in a different boat then the majority of my soon to be peers, but regardless this is who i will be competing with for advancement. Any personal experiences, both good and bad are welcomed. Im ready to hit the ground running, just want to make sure its in the right direction. I appreciate any assistance you can provide.

What is it that you think will be different for you? I had 8.5 years enlisted time before I went through flight school and you'll be just another one of the guys - trust me. Since you have aviation experience and understand how a squadron works, you'll have an advantage in not being quite as clueless as the others at first. Use that to your advantage in helping the other folks out and show them the ropes - winning friends and influencing people, etc. Honestly, it took me a couple months to adjust to being an officer, but it's all good. Your core group of friends is going to be 5-6 years younger than you now (that's still true for me), but I consider that an advantage, especially if you're single and still run around like a wild man.

Career-wise, all your statutory HYT dates get reset when you commission, so while your prior time will obviously count toward retirement, it will not count against you for HYT in grade, nor will it be a factor for selection boards. Been there, done that, so if you have any other questions, fire away.

Brett

 

[OscarMyers]

I think my major concern is meeting the widgets to make rank. I have this notion that I have to get advanced first time up every time if i want to go the distance. But with my HYT getting reset id say thats probably less of a factor. I appreciate the feed back.
@ Brett, I noticed your at the War College. When in your career would you start looking at getting up there and how is it?

 

[Brett327]

Just to clarify, you are under no different circumstances when it comes to making rank, nor will you be limited by anything other than your own preferences when you hit 20 years. I hit 20 and decided that I'm still enjoying what I do and have a good shot at command, so I'm sticking around until that changes. Unless you're unbelievably (criminally) fucked up, you're going to make rank the first time up through O4, so don't sweat it.

For War College, as with anything else, it's all about timing. There is the potential to do it pre DH (less common), or post DH. It's certainly not a requirement for upward mobility, but you do get your JPME 1 and a masters degree out of it. It's also making me a hell of a lot smarter on big picture issues and corporate knowledge of how the military machine works. You'll work that stuff with your front office and your detailer when the time comes.

Brett

 

[wlawr005]

I think my major concern is meeting the widgets to make rank. I have this notion that I have to get advanced first time up every time if i want to go the distance. But with my HYT getting reset id say thats probably less of a factor. I appreciate the feed back.
@ Brett, I noticed your at the War College. When in your career would you start looking at getting up there and how is it?

All your promotions are going to be automatic until O-4, and that's almost automatic. There isn't any competition until that point. As for being a prior, most people don't care. I was the class leader in IFS, but that just meant that I took muster everyday...no real responsibility. Other than that, I think most instructors in the VTs either expect you to be as clueless as everyone else, or simply don't care that you're a prior. Just do what you're told, help others when you can, and expect people to treat you like you've only been an officer for less than a year...which is true.

 

[OnTopTime]

I think my major concern is meeting the widgets to make rank. I have this notion that I have to get advanced first time up every time if i want to go the distance.

Nitpick:
Enlisted = advanced
Officer = promoted

Unlike on the E side, if you don't make it on the O side when you're first eligible/in zone, your chances of picking it up on subsequent boards dramatically decrease.

 

[FlyBoyd]

I have seen prior E's with a lot of time under their belt struggle. As was stated above, you will be older than most others. Resist the notion you are different/better and make sure to intergrate yourself into your class/squadron. If you have a wife and kids in tow prepare them for the long hours. The last thing you need is a wife that doesn't understand what is expected of you. You are no longer a supervisor/LPO so plan on a few shenanigans. Teach others to embrace the suck.

People tend to study with people similar to them...prior E, married, black, white, purple, female, etc. You might be one-of-a-kind in some situations and if you try to go it alone, you might not make it through. CNATRA has a term for students like this (you) but I forget the label. Something like "high risk group" or the like. Since you are different than the standard widget you tend to hang out on the fringes of your new peer group and never really fit in. Most students that don't fit in struggle to do well. CNATRA has loads of data to support this theory and I have personally seen it happen.

I'm not saying it is your destiny. Just keep it in mind as you start down your new path.

 

[ea6bflyr]

Other than that, I think most instructors in the VTs either expect you to be as clueless as everyone else, or simply don't care that you're a prior. Just do what you're told, help others when you can, and expect people to treat you like you've only been an officer for less than a year...which is true.

Not always true. When I was an NFO instructor, I expected more from a prior SNFO. Performance wise, all STUDs are retards, but I expected a bit more preparedness from a prior guy or gal because they aren't trying to figure out who they have to salute.

-ea6bflyr

 

[MasterBates]

Unlike on the E side, if you don't make it on the O side when you're first eligible/in zone, your chances of picking it up on subsequent boards dramatically decrease.

Also, you get 2 shots to promote.. 2XFOS (Failure Of Selection, aka, not promoted) and you get sent to CIVLANT or Reserves.

(Ask me how I know this)

 

[Brett327]

Also, you get 2 shots to promote.. 2XFOS (Failure Of Selection, aka, not promoted) and you get sent to CIVLANT or Reserves.

(Ask me how I know this)

Yes, I believe I addressed your situation already.

Brett

 

[phrogpilot73]

Unless you're unbelievably (criminally) fucked up, you're going to make rank the first time up through O4, so don't sweat it.

All your promotions are going to be automatic until O-4, and that's almost automatic.

Wow. Must be nice to be in the Navy, and be immune to the budget cuts that are seeing lower promotion rates to O-4. Good thing you guys jumped on the IAs, must really be proving that you are invaluable assets in the grand scheme of things. Smiles simulated.

I think while you may have been able to say this in the past, it's not going to be the case in the future.

 

[wlawr005]

Not always true. When I was an NFO instructor, I expected more from a prior SNFO. Performance wise, all STUDs are retards, but I expected a bit more preparedness from a prior guy or gal because they aren't trying to figure out who they have to salute.

-ea6bflyr

People salute me all the time (other studs); I don't know if it's becasue I look old or have gold wings, but it happens. There is one prior Marine Capt (I think) instructor at Whiting who is now an LTJG in the Coast Guard; had to learn what he looks like from a distance so I can avoid giving him the "JO nod"

 

[Uncle Fester]

Other than additional uniform bling, you're no different than any other ensign in the Tracom, and it will make no difference in your career. At least, until your peers are sweating JPME and DH screen and you can think, at least I'm close to 20. Shed the idea that you're different right now. Prior enlisted was one of the 'perfect storm' risk factors we looked for in students. They often tended to treat the program like "just another Navy bullshit school," didn't study enough, wouldn't do group study, etc and so on.

You reset your salty meter when you became an O. Accept it and get your head into Dumb Ensign Mode.

 

[Brett327]

Wow. Must be nice to be in the Navy, and be immune to the budget cuts that are seeing lower promotion rates to O-4. Good thing you guys jumped on the IAs, must really be proving that you are invaluable assets in the grand scheme of things. Smiles simulated.

I think while you may have been able to say this in the past, it's not going to be the case in the future.

This isn't what this thread is about, so I'm not going to go down that road. Everyone has to pay the piper for past sins, don't they? Sustained superior performance is the drum that leadership beats. It usually doesn't disappoint.

Brett