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New helo trainer at Rucker?

Pags

Well-Known Member
pilot
Keeping the -67 isn't an option. So why does it matter its relative cost to the options in play?
It's a good discussion to have to inform leadership as to how much more money they'll need to plan for if they want to continue to operate the same way. Or if there's no more money it informs them that they'll need to do something different. Also helps source selection committee understand how to evaluate cost and other factors in relation to each other.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
2.d. FACT.
3.e. Unsure if it's true, but when I was at HX, I asked if any of us TPS nerds would get to test TH-XX and was told CNATRA was allowed to buy whatever it wanted...no NAVAIR involvement required. If so, lame and a mistake.
3e...really? When was that and what did they mean, exactly? NAVAIR writes the check. They have to have some involvement.
 

Pags

Well-Known Member
pilot
3e...really? When was that and what did they mean, exactly? NAVAIR writes the check. They have to have some involvement.
@IKE, clarifying question: did you mean HX wouldn't evaluate/fly-off the contenders prior to source selection or did you mean that once selection was completed that HX wouldn't evaluate the selected prototype as part of the system validation?
 

IKE

Nerd Whirler
pilot
@IKE, clarifying question: did you mean HX wouldn't evaluate/fly-off the contenders prior to source selection or did you mean that once selection was completed that HX wouldn't evaluate the selected prototype as part of the system validation?
I was told HX wouldn't evaluate alternatives, but I don't remember who told me, so take with 100 grains of salt. I suppose it makes more sense that HX would evaluate alternatives, but not test the winner, unless it gets Navy-specific systems.

I do know we tested the new VRS sideways recovery technique in the TH-57, so we're not completely divorced from CNATRA.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
There IS going to be a System Performance Demonstration before award, so is THAT going to be all CNATRA?
 

wink

VS NFO. Blue and Gold Officer
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
It's a good discussion to have to inform leadership as to how much more money they'll need to plan for if they want to continue to operate the same way. Or if there's no more money it informs them that they'll need to do something different. Also helps source selection committee understand how to evaluate cost and other factors in relation to each other.
Yeah, maybe. Look, it is either delivering good value for the money, and you can afford it, or not. That should stand on it's own. So if it turns out the alternative is crazy more expensive than the -67, would they pass and keep the -67? Seems not. So big whoop.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
Yeah, maybe. Look, it is either delivering good value for the money, and you can afford it, or not. That should stand on it's own. So if it turns out the alternative is crazy more expensive than the -67, would they pass and keep the -67? Seems not. So big whoop.
Depends on how big your budgets are and the color of money therein.

You might have a procurement budget big enough to pay for something pretty Gucci.

If your flight hour and O&S money is fixed, though, you might not be able to achieve the same student throughput if there isn’t enough money to pay for the flight time.
 

wink

VS NFO. Blue and Gold Officer
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Depends on how big your budgets are and the color of money therein.

You might have a procurement budget big enough to pay for something pretty Gucci.

If your flight hour and O&S money is fixed, though, you might not be able to achieve the same student throughput if there isn’t enough money to pay for the flight time.
So doing nothing, keeping the -67 is in play?
 

ChuckMK23

Former H-46 Driver
pilot
@IKE, clarifying question: did you mean HX wouldn't evaluate/fly-off the contenders prior to source selection or did you mean that once selection was completed that HX wouldn't evaluate the selected prototype as part of the system validation?
I have an answer - NAVAIR PMA is running the program and selection wing to wing. CNATRA is in the mix however (stakeholder and advisory)

@phrogdriver the System Performance Demonstration is scheduled for Spring, this year (not summer) - and will occur at each candidates location - 2 weeks for each aircraft.
 
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IKE

Nerd Whirler
pilot
I have an answer - NAVAIR PMA is running the program and selection wing to wing. CNATRA is in the mix however (stakeholder and advisory)

@phrogdriver the System Performance Demonstration is scheduled for Spring, this year (not summer) - and will occur at each candidates location - 2 weeks for each aircraft.
That makes sense. Since it isn't really first flight for any of those birds, it shouldn't be Cat C, which means no TPS grad required. Anyone with enough "fleet experience" could be designated a Cat A/B test pilot. And to be fair, an HT IP with many hours training studs is probably a better judge than someone with mostly -60 time.
 
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