Modified Self-Defense guns

[bunk22]

Bunk, I see your home defense piece is essentially stock. I've heard that's the way to go, for legal reasons, with HD weapons, thoughts?

If so, I take it the Gen 3 is just for the range?

In a class this weekend, an Urban Defense/Low Light handgun class, this subject came up with the instructors. There is no law against carrying or having a modified trigger...HOWEVER....an accidental discharge, an innocent being shot and even with the bad guy being shot, there could be a prosecutor out there who will come after you for that modified trigger. I'm talking the lighter trigger pull. Even if cleared in criminal court, that light trigger could definitely be used against you in civil court. A modified trigger is one thing but a lighter trigger pull is another. The idea is not to have a trigger lighter than what comes stock. So on my Zev Tech Glock in the above pic, I put stock springs in it so though it's a nice aftermarket trigger, with a very smooth pull, it's pull is stock....slightly heavier actually.

Anything is possible, I could have a 19 round mag in my G17 that is supposed to hold 17 rounds and the victim or family could go after you. I hope I never have to use my gun anyway, not something I want to do in life. I love shooting but paper and metal targets are just fine for me.

 

[azguy]

In a class this weekend, an Urban Defense/Low Light handgun class, this subject came up with the instructors. There is no law against carrying or having a modified trigger...HOWEVER....an accidental discharge, an innocent being shot and even with the bad guy being shot, there could be a prosecutor out there who will come after you for that modified trigger. I'm talking the lighter trigger pull. Even if cleared in criminal court, that light trigger could definitely be used against you in civil court. A modified trigger is one thing but a lighter trigger pull is another. The idea is not to have a trigger lighter than what comes stock. So on my Zev Tech Glock in the above pic, I put stock springs in it so though it's a nice aftermarket trigger, with a very smooth pull, it's pull is stock....slightly heavier actually.

Anything is possible, I could have a 19 round mag in my G17 that is supposed to hold 17 rounds and the victim or family could go after you. I hope I never have to use my gun anyway, not something I want to do in life. I love shooting but paper and metal targets are just fine for me.

Good points, after seeing how Zimmerman got his junk dragged through the hot coals at trial - rightly or wrongfully so - it just seems like "bad math" to carry a whiz bang modified gun for defensive purposes. I can see a prosecutor exploiting that. And I totally agree, big liability in civil court.

Interesting point about the extended mags though, never thought about that - I have a bunch of G17 mags I use as backups for my G19...

 

[Rocketman]

Good points, after seeing how Zimmerman got his junk dragged through the hot coals at trial - rightly or wrongfully so - it just seems like "bad math" to carry a whiz bang modified gun for defensive purposes. I can see a prosecutor exploiting that. And I totally agree, big liability in civil court.

Interesting point about the extended mags though, never thought about that - I have a bunch of G17 mags I use as backups for my G19...

Zimmerman got his junk dragged thru the coals because he was an idiot. That shooting never should have happened. He could have safely walked away and didn't.

I don't want to derail this thread but I do want to respond. This discussion about "modified hair" triggers has been played out on the interwebs a million times. My personal choice, after years of consideration is to add a widely available FACTORY Glock part that makes the weapon more accurate in my hands. (I havent always felt that way for the record)

A bone stock G19 with a factory disconnect that makes the weapon more accurate isn't a "whiz bang" (hyperbole much azguy ?) modified weapon. I'm not all that concerned about making center of mass hits at 5 yards. What I am concerned about is the astronomically remote need to make a single very precise shot at 7 yards. The NYC PD had to "modify" their service pistols with a 12 pound trigger. It was supposed to make them "safer". Does that mean I should do the same because I'm afraid of ND's and liability. I don't think so.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...ay-have-contributed-to-the-terrible-shooting/

It's surely a personal choice and one not to be taken lightly. That said, I'm comfortable that a competent self defense attorney can make the case that an accurate gun is a safer gun, especially in a gun savy state like TN. In TN and many other free states, you can't be sued in civil court if the shooting is ruled justifiable. That helped change my mind as much as anything else. I feel good about my personal choice. If I'm wrong I'm ok with that as long as I was justified in making the shot and that making the shot saved my life or the life of a loved one.

 

[azguy]

You're an adult, do what you want with your trigger. The whiz bang comment is a reference to what will be said about you at trial in the unfortunate case you find yourself there. As we saw at the Zimmerman trial, a prosecutor - doing his job - will sensationalize details about the case in an effort to demonize you and win a conviction.

The 'better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6' mantra you allude to is very trite - obviously none of us wants to die. As I said earlier in the thread, if you're not able to handle a Glock with a stock trigger, why not purchase a weapon you are comfortable shooting out of the box?

 

[Rocketman]

Dude I answered your question. Back to the pictures.....

 

[Gatordev]

Moving this to a separate thread. I think there was something similar in the past, but I'll just start a new one...

Good points, after seeing how Zimmerman got his junk dragged through the hot coals at trial - rightly or wrongfully so - it just seems like "bad math" to carry a whiz bang modified gun for defensive purposes. I can see a prosecutor exploiting that. And I totally agree, big liability in civil court.

Believe it or not, the Zimmerman case wasn't nearly as big a deal in FL as it was nationally on the news. Besides, we need Mr. Z on the streets to rescue us from random SUV accidents.

 

[azguy]

Thanks Gator - and sorry for the jack.

 

[A7Dave]

I would recommend anyone who carries or owns a gun for self defense read Massad Ayoob's book "In the Gravest Extreme". He covers the "perils" of gun modification which have been brought up above. He writes for several magazines and heads the Lethal Force Institute. Here he talks about the "stand your ground" laws.

 

[bunk22]

I actually asked Mr Ayoob on Glocktalk about this and he is big into not making a trigger lighter than the "advertised" stock pull. My Glocks were actually around 6.6lbs and with 3.5lb connector, the pull is still above stock, just smoother. He said he has never seen a case where making a trigger pull smoother was an issue. That Zev Tech Glock trigger came in at 3.5lbs and I love the gun but not comfortable using it for self-defense, so in went the stock springs. Aftermarket trigger but stock pull, just smoother.

I also asked the law firm that I joined that covers me in case, god forbid, I'm ever involved in one, said same...don't lighten the pull, smoother is okay. Even then, an enterprising lawyer in a civil or criminal case can make an effort to prove by smoothing it out, you were a danger.

 

[Flash]

......I also asked the law firm that I joined that covers me in case, god forbid, I'm ever involved in one, said same....

Matlock, is that you?

 

[bunk22]

Matlock, is that you?

LOL, I worded that poorly. I became a member of Texas Law Shield, insurance basically.