LASIK, Naval Vision requirements, MEPS, and Eligibility

[Spectre]

I had a conversation recently with my recruiter. He decided to look into vision requirements for unrestricted line officers after I informed him that I was open to seeking a commission as a SWO. I already took the ASTB-E (and have fairly competitive scores with my GPA), plan on going to MEPS, am considering LASIK surgery, and want to apply for three fields --pilot, possibly NFO, and SWO.

For the past few months, I've been primarily interested in aviation. While I considered SWO a viable third option, I began to consider it more seriously a few weeks ago. I love the water/ships/open ocean and I love the idea of flying --I suppose whatever I decide will depend on which is the best fit for me. Aviation and SWO both have something they can offer (I've heard that SWO is a more diverse experience, with more chances for leadership opportunities early on). Aviation is obviously that --aviation.

Anyway, the point, if I can stop dancing around the issue, is that my vision is fairly bad. I know that, if I go aviation, I will have to have LASIK. My prescription is:

(SPH): OD/Right Eye: -6.75, OS/Left Eye: -7.0. (CYL): OD/R: -3.5, OS/L: -3.75. Axis: OD/R: 3.0, OS/L: 157.0.

For aviation, I know I will require LASIK. My recruiter never had problems with vision, so he had to do research. He found that, for unrestricted line officers, vision can not go beyond +/- 8.00 diopters. If diopters measure only nearsightedness or farsightedness (SPH), then I should be good to go if I decide to go the SWO route. But, the recruiter is unsure about whether SPH and CYL (astigmatism) are combined when evaluating for eligibility. For example, my SPH falls short of -8.00, but if it is combined with CYL then it does not. Can someone explain/help me understand this?

If I have to have LASIK before I even think of going to MEPS, then I know I will have to wait for 6 months (according to my recruiter) after the surgery before I can go in to be evaluated. Will I require LASIK? What is the process like, and is it "frowned on" when you get your medical eval? My recruiter has related a few "horror" stories about MEPS, and a good friend (Army) told me "Don't volunteer any information."

I'm really just looking to understand as much about this as I can before I get in --and I do want to get in the Navy very passionately, even if I'm still considering a few different routes that I could take. Again, any clarification would be wonderful.

Thanks ahead of time.

 

[Hopeful Hoya]

Can't speak as to whether you are eligible for LASIK or not, but I had it done just over a year ago, and went through MEPS in February and it was a non-issue. Still get some minor dry eye from time to time, but I had my one year checkup a couple of weeks ago and I was seeing better than 20/15 in both eyes. This is all with the caveat of not having gone through NAMI yet, however.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I had a conversation recently with my recruiter. He decided to look into vision requirements for unrestricted line officers after I informed him that I was open to seeking a commission as a SWO. I already took the ASTB-E (and have fairly competitive scores with my GPA), plan on going to MEPS, am considering LASIK surgery, and want to apply for three fields --pilot, possibly NFO, and SWO.

For the past few months, I've been primarily interested in aviation. While I considered SWO a viable third option, I began to consider it more seriously a few weeks ago. I love the water/ships/open ocean and I love the idea of flying --I suppose whatever I decide will depend on which is the best fit for me. Aviation and SWO both have something they can offer (I've heard that SWO is a more diverse experience, with more chances for leadership opportunities early on). Aviation is obviously that --aviation.

Anyway, the point, if I can stop dancing around the issue, is that my vision is fairly bad. I know that, if I go aviation, I will have to have LASIK. My prescription is:

(SPH): OD/Right Eye: -6.75, OS/Left Eye: -7.0. (CYL): OD/R: -3.5, OS/L: -3.75. Axis: OD/R: 3.0, OS/L: 157.0.

For aviation, I know I will require LASIK. My recruiter never had problems with vision, so he had to do research. He found that, for unrestricted line officers, vision can not go beyond +/- 8.00 diopters. If diopters measure only nearsightedness or farsightedness (SPH), then I should be good to go if I decide to go the SWO route. But, the recruiter is unsure about whether SPH and CYL (astigmatism) are combined when evaluating for eligibility. For example, my SPH falls short of -8.00, but if it is combined with CYL then it does not. Can someone explain/help me understand this?

If I have to have LASIK before I even think of going to MEPS, then I know I will have to wait for 6 months (according to my recruiter) after the surgery before I can go in to be evaluated. Will I require LASIK? What is the process like, and is it "frowned on" when you get your medical eval? My recruiter has related a few "horror" stories about MEPS, and a good friend (Army) told me "Don't volunteer any information."

I'm really just looking to understand as much about this as I can before I get in --and I do want to get in the Navy very passionately, even if I'm still considering a few different routes that I could take. Again, any clarification would be wonderful.

Thanks ahead of time.

Go to MEPS, get a physical, have your OR submit to N3M and see what they say, for SWO and NFO you have to have corrected vision to 20/20, if N3M determines your vision is too bad to commission for SWO or NFO before surgery then getting surgery won't help as that means you have exceed pre-surgery requirements.

If they clear you for SWO and NFO and you decide you want to go for SNA then get surgery.

 

[Spectre]

Can't speak as to whether you are eligible for LASIK or not, but I had it done just over a year ago, and went through MEPS in February and it was a non-issue. Still get some minor dry eye from time to time, but I had my one year checkup a couple of weeks ago and I was seeing better than 20/15 in both eyes. This is all with the caveat of not having gone through NAMI yet, however.

That's encouraging, at least. I'm having a LASIK eval this Friday with a local eye surgeon. He's good at what he does and, probably, will be able to tell me how much he can correct my vision. Fingers crossed on this --and thank you for sharing.

 

[Spectre]

Go to MEPS, get a physical, have your OR submit to N3M and see what they say, for SWO and NFO you have to have corrected vision to 20/20, if N3M determines your vision is too bad to commission for SWO or NFO before surgery then getting surgery won't help as that means you have exceed pre-surgery requirements.

If they clear you for SWO and NFO and you decide you want to go for SNA then get surgery.

Thanks for that. I can see perfectly fine with glasses/contacts --20/20. But, uncorrected vision is what I've been worried about. The NFO requirements uncorrected are 20/100, while SNA is 20/40. Again, I can see perfectly fine when I'm wearing corrective lenses, and I don't have any other vision issues. I didn't know that there were "pre-surgery" requirements -- I thought that if your vision was correctable to the proper standards, then you would be good to go. I'll share what you said with my recruiter and get his take.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Thanks for that. I can see perfectly fine with glasses/contacts --20/20. But, uncorrected vision is what I've been worried about. The NFO requirements uncorrected are 20/100, while SNA is 20/40. Again, I can see perfectly fine when I'm wearing corrective lenses, and I don't have any other vision issues. I didn't know that there were "pre-surgery" requirements -- I thought that if your vision was correctable to the proper standards, then you would be good to go. I'll share what you said with my recruiter and get his take.

I really hope you are doing the surgery for you and not trying to get in the USN, the pre-operative limits for a person entering a URL designator is +/- 6.00 diopters. MANMED article 15-36 (2)(b)

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Thanks for that. I can see perfectly fine with glasses/contacts --20/20. But, uncorrected vision is what I've been worried about. The NFO requirements uncorrected are 20/100, while SNA is 20/40. Again, I can see perfectly fine when I'm wearing corrective lenses, and I don't have any other vision issues. I didn't know that there were "pre-surgery" requirements -- I thought that if your vision was correctable to the proper standards, then you would be good to go. I'll share what you said with my recruiter and get his take.

Your information is wrong. There isn't no min for NFO.

Also, SWO cannot be your third choice, only first or second.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Also, for the OP, your original post is counterintuitive. You mention you have to get LASIK, then not, then ask again if you should get LASIK. Get the physical first and see where you stand. If your eyesight isn't within pilot standards, then the decision is up to YOU if you want to proceed for applying for NFO/SWO, or wait 6-9 months to get surgery and then heal up to apply.

 

[Spectre]

I really hope you are doing the surgery for you and not trying to get in the USN, the pre-operative limits for a person entering a URL designator is +/- 6.00 diopters. MANMED article 15-36 (2)(b)

It actually says, "(b) Current spherical refractive error [hyperopia (367.0), myopia (367.1)] or history of spherical refractive error prior to any refractive surgery of worse than -8.00 or +8.00 diopters is disqualifying". In which case, my SPH is fine. It's not +/- 6.00, but +/- 8.00. It's +/- 6.00 for the Marines

Now, it does say: "(c) Current cylinder refractive error [astigmatism (367.2)] or history of cylinder refractive error, prior to any refractive surgery, of worse than -3.00 or +3.00 diopters is disqualifying." MANMED article 15-36 (2)(c). So, for my astigmatism, I will require a waiver.

As far as why I was doing it --yes, it was for the Navy. I wanted to have the surgery for aviation, but the doctor said my astigmatism was "too bad" for that. That said, I may be able to get a recommendation to Duke to get a second opinion (someone informed me that when the doctor I went to for my LASIK evaluation denied one client with a high astigmatism, they were referred to Duke and the surgery was successful). My astigmatism is barely out of the +/- 3.00 range, so I believe I may be able to get a waiver for that. But, if I want pilot, I will have to have something done to correct my vision. Whether anything can be done to get me into the required parameters, I don't know yet. I may just go forward with SWO.

I will say that, yes --I wanted the surgery so that I could fly in the USN. But, I have wanted to be an officer for quite a bit longer, and was considering SWO before I even thought of pilot. I will settle, and be perfectly happy, if I can get in, serve my country via the only branch of the service I've ever seriously wanted to be a part of, and take the next steps in my life without too much delay.

 

[Spectre]

Your information is wrong. There isn't no min for NFO.

Also, SWO cannot be your third choice, only first or second.

Thanks for clearing that up. I read the 20/100 thing somewhere, but double-checked via Google and you seem to be absolutely right. Since I can't do SNA (unless something changes with my situation), I will apply for SNFO and SWO, at least. I don't know which will be my first choice --I will have to give it a lot of thought, and both are venerable routes. What could a third choice be? Supply, etc? I do want to apply for three.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

It actually says, "(b) Current spherical refractive error [hyperopia (367.0), myopia (367.1)] or history of spherical refractive error prior to any refractive surgery of worse than -8.00 or +8.00 diopters is disqualifying". In which case, my SPH is fine. It's not +/- 6.00, but +/- 8.00. It's +/- 6.00 for the Marines

Now, it does say: "(c) Current cylinder refractive error [astigmatism (367.2)] or history of cylinder refractive error, prior to any refractive surgery, of worse than -3.00 or +3.00 diopters is disqualifying." MANMED article 15-36 (2)(c). So, for my astigmatism, I will require a waiver.

As far as why I was doing it --yes, it was for the Navy. I wanted to have the surgery for aviation, but the doctor said my astigmatism was "too bad" for that. That said, I may be able to get a recommendation to Duke to get a second opinion (someone informed me that when the doctor I went to for my LASIK evaluation denied one client with a high astigmatism, they were referred to Duke and the surgery was successful). My astigmatism is barely out of the +/- 3.00 range, so I believe I may be able to get a waiver for that. But, if I want pilot, I will have to have something done to correct my vision. Whether anything can be done to get me into the required parameters, I don't know yet. I may just go forward with SWO.

I will say that, yes --I wanted the surgery so that I could fly in the USN. But, I have wanted to be an officer for quite a bit longer, and was considering SWO before I even thought of pilot. I will settle, and be perfectly happy, if I can get in, serve my country via the only branch of the service I've ever seriously wanted to be a part of, and take the next steps in my life without too much delay.

No, you looked in the wrong section, that is for entry into restricted line that is (3)(b), the part that applies to aviation and SWO is part (2)(b) which starts "for entry into a program leading to a commission in the Navy Unrestricted Line"

I have had people that exceeded the 6.00 so were DQ for anything but RL and one went Supply (for example), I have had those that were over 8.00 and completely DQ from everything, but one was waivered for nuke subs.

Like RUFIO said I would go to MEPS and see what N3M says, except for the nuke guy I never saw them waive any vision limits.

 

[Spectre]

Also, for the OP, your original post is counterintuitive. You mention you have to get LASIK, then not, then ask again if you should get LASIK. Get the physical first and see where you stand. If your eyesight isn't within pilot standards, then the decision is up to YOU if you want to proceed for applying for NFO/SWO, or wait 6-9 months to get surgery and then heal up to apply.

I posted the original post prior to my LASIK eval (which was done earlier today). I was simply trying to get some feedback on all of this. The recruiter was the one that originally suggested that I go ahead with LASIK surgery before going to MEPS (if I wanted pilot). Since I found out today that my astigmatism was too bad, unless some place like Duke can fix it, pilot seems to be a dead-in-the-water path for me now. He didn't want to me to go to MEPS prior to having the surgery, if I could have it. Now that things look a tad different, I will look into the Duke thing, but hedge my bets on NFO/SWO. That means that I should be scheduling a MEPS date fairly soon.

I would be happy with any of the Naval careers I've mentioned. I just want to be a part of something bigger than myself, serve, and gain some valuable professional experience in the process.

 

[Spectre]

No, you looked in the wrong section, that is for entry into restricted line that is (3)(b), the part that applies to aviation and SWO is part (2)(b) which starts "for entry into a program leading to a commission in the Navy Unrestricted Line"

I have had people that exceeded the 6.00 so were DQ for anything but RL and one went Supply (for example), I have had those that were over 8.00 and completely DQ from everything, but one was waivered for nuke subs.

Like RUFIO said I would go to MEPS and see what N3M says, except for the nuke guy I never saw them waive any vision limits.

Are we looking at the same document? Lol. http://www.med.navy.mil/directives/...0, 144, 145, 147, 150-152, 154-156 below).pdf

According to Article 15-36(2):
"(2) For Entry into a Program Leading to a Commission in the Navy Unrestricted Line (a) Current distant and near visual acuity of any degree that does not correct with spectacle lenses to 20/20 in each eye is disqualifying. (b) Current spherical refractive error [hyperopia (367.0), myopia (367.1)] or history of spherical refractive error prior to any refractive surgery of worse than -8.00 or +8.00 diopters is disqualifying. (c) Current cylinder refractive error [astigmatism (367.2)] or history of cylinder refractive error, prior to any refractive surgery, of worse than -3.00 or +3.00 diopters is disqualifying. (d) Current complicated cases requiring contact lenses for adequate correction of vision, such as corneal scars (371) and irregular astigmatism (367.2) are disqualifying. (e) Lack of adequate Color Vision is disqualifying. Adequate color vision is demonstrated by: (1) Correctly identifying at least 10 out of 14 Pseudo-Isochromatic Plates (PIP). Applicants failing the PIP prior to 31 December 2016 will be tested via the FALANT or OPTEC 900 as described below.(2) Passing the FALANT/OPTEC 900 test. A passing score on the FALANT/OPTEC 900 is obtained by correctly identifying 9 out of 9 presentations on the first test series. If any incorrect identifications are made, a second consecutive series of 18 presentations is administered. On the second series, a passing score is obtained by correctly identifying 16, 17, or 18 presentations. The FALANT and OPTEC 900 will not be authorized for demonstrating adequate color vision starting 1 January 2017."

Maybe regulations have been updated? Unless I really am blind.....

It says the same thing, in the document, relating to RL. Again, could the regulations have changed recently? Because the linked document does say +/- 8.00. It says "Change 154" at the bottom of the document, and is dated 12/08/2015.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Are we looking at the same document? Lol. http://www.med.navy.mil/directives/Documents/NAVMED P-117 (MANMED)/Chapter 15, Medical Examinations (incorporates Changes 126, 128, 135-140, 144, 145, 147, 150-152, 154-156 below).pdf

According to Article 15-36(2):
"(2) For Entry into a Program Leading to a Commission in the Navy Unrestricted Line (a) Current distant and near visual acuity of any degree that does not correct with spectacle lenses to 20/20 in each eye is disqualifying. (b) Current spherical refractive error [hyperopia (367.0), myopia (367.1)] or history of spherical refractive error prior to any refractive surgery of worse than -8.00 or +8.00 diopters is disqualifying. (c) Current cylinder refractive error [astigmatism (367.2)] or history of cylinder refractive error, prior to any refractive surgery, of worse than -3.00 or +3.00 diopters is disqualifying. (d) Current complicated cases requiring contact lenses for adequate correction of vision, such as corneal scars (371) and irregular astigmatism (367.2) are disqualifying. (e) Lack of adequate Color Vision is disqualifying. Adequate color vision is demonstrated by: (1) Correctly identifying at least 10 out of 14 Pseudo-Isochromatic Plates (PIP). Applicants failing the PIP prior to 31 December 2016 will be tested via the FALANT or OPTEC 900 as described below.(2) Passing the FALANT/OPTEC 900 test. A passing score on the FALANT/OPTEC 900 is obtained by correctly identifying 9 out of 9 presentations on the first test series. If any incorrect identifications are made, a second consecutive series of 18 presentations is administered. On the second series, a passing score is obtained by correctly identifying 16, 17, or 18 presentations. The FALANT and OPTEC 900 will not be authorized for demonstrating adequate color vision starting 1 January 2017."

Maybe regulations have been updated? Unless I really am blind.....

It says the same thing, in the document, relating to RL. Again, could the regulations have changed recently? Because the linked document does say +/- 8.00. It says "Change 154" at the bottom of the document, and is dated 12/08/2015.

Ugh, when I wiped my computer I must have saved the wrong link when I re-did all my links, it looks like cylinder refraction should be your only hurdle, but when the time comes go to MEPS and see what N3M says, see if with surgery they will even be willing to waiver greater than 3.0

 

[Spectre]

Ah, good! I was hoping that I was right about that (for obvious reasons). Astigmatism should be the only thing I'll need to get waived, then (I hope). Since I probably won't be getting LASIK or PRK, unless some doctor decides it will be worth it in my case, I won't require a waiver for that either. The only medical "problems" I've ever had were a few scrapes and bruises here and there (including a cut on the inside of my wrist and the top of my hand from the same accident, where I was going all Gung Ho as a kid and trying to help my dad with scrap metal --I wasn't quite careful enough, and I needed like 5 stitches). Nothing that had any lasting effects. I have seasonal allergies too, but that shouldn't be a big deal. Then again, I haven't got the slightest idea of what to expect going into MEPS!

I will definitely take your advice. I appreciate it!