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Joint Training

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Jeff

Registered User
I am looking for any info on the joint training with the Navy and Airforce. I am returning to class up for API the first week of May, and I have orders to Corpus, but I am considering changing them to Vance. There is an 8 - 10 week wait to class up for primary at Corpus, and no wait at all for Whiting and Vance. I am not a big fan of
P-Cola, but I want to push through as quickly as possible so I would like to go to Vance. If anyone has been through the training at Vance or has any good gouge on it let me know. Do you do API in P-Cola or do you do an USAF version if you go to Vance?

Thanks

Jeff
 

webmaster

The Grass is Greener!
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Jeff, I have to agree with Matt, you joined the Navy, why would you want to go through Air Farce training. Also, they have a really "anal" system, where you are spoon fed your brief items, and you stay in the ready room all day every day, even if you fly or don't. (ok, I am overplaying some stuff...) Seriously though, you probably would get through training faster at Vance, but one of my friends here in the RAG went to Vance, and we had to take some time with him, and another Marine buddy on bringing them up to Navy standards on being prepared for a brief ahead of time, and what is expected of you.

Both guys were amazed with the amount of leway we have with our free time compared to Air Force training. The Navy just hands you the books, and says "study this, and be prepared to talk about the brief items", basically giving you enough free rope to hang yourself with, but it is more of the big boy system. If you are not on the sked, it is up to YOU to study, do the computer work, get with your partner, whatever it takes to be prepared for the next syllabus items. Whereas the Air Force approach is, come to the brief without studying, and we will tell you everything, but you work 9-5 (or whatever every day) and you will be on the sked whether you fly or not.

Personally I like the Navy training better (from what I have heard of the Air Force), and you can take that other time off and do what you want with it. But god help you if you fail to come to a brief fully prepared, I made that mistake ONCE (spit out a procedure improperly, thought I knew it the night before, and didn't study it well enough, of all things the level speed change, don't laugh those of you who know what I am talking about!), early stage FAMs, never have repeated it (shudder at the thought).... anyways my two cents.

Also, another thought, you will be with other Navy SNAs that you will continue to go through training with if you stay the Navy route, instead of being one of the minority (a Navy guy amidst a sea of smurfs) at Vance...
 

Frumby

Super *********
pilot
Super Moderator
Jeff,
Don't do it! Go to Corpus! That's an order! Vance is OTS for the Air Force. Everyday, you are treated like a recruit. 0730 AOM's every morning for everyone (including IP's) which includes a daily review of emergency procedures. Going over EP's daily is not a bad thing but being put on the spot as you stand in front of evryone and recite them gets a little old. Besides, the Air Force teaches pilots to fly within the parameters of "the book." The USMC/Navy teaches you to fly but keep the book under advisement. In other words you learn to think for yourself.
The other problem is when you get to advanced (I can only speak for jets) we spend at least the first 5 Fam's doing nothing but breaking Vance's habits. An Air Force landing pattern is extremely different then a USMC pattern.
Besides Corpus is fun in the summer. Go look at Bikini's not Cows. In your career if you remember nothing else, remember this:
"Flare to land, Squat to Pee!"
Semper Fi! Frumby

Attack Pilot
Major USMC
 

Randy Haskin

Registered User
"it turns out that Primary in the Navy side gets to do a lot of things that the air farce primary guys don't get to do like aerobatics and aerobatic solos and formation solos"

That's completely untrue. T-37 training includes specifically all of what you mentioned above. Now, I can't speak as to how 6 months of Air Force training will impact the rest of your training in the USN pipeline, but I can tell you that you're not missing out on anything flying-wise by going through the AF program.

Randy Haskin
F-15E pilot
 

ASUPilot

Registered User
Randy,

It's good to see you over here on this board as well. Airwarriors.com is another great message board for perspective USN pilots. There are often assertions about the AF training vs. USN training so it will be fun to watch you keep everyone in line, LOL!

Hayden M. Scott
 

Dave Shutter

Registered User
Randy...I had a AF question. I've read that the F-22 is coming into service in the next two years or so, but I've also read something a little disturbing, that it will only carry the AIM-9X and AIM-120. I understand that Air Dominance Fighter means just that, a pure-breed fighter, but for the amount of dollars put into that thing (100 MIL+?) you would think it would have some multi-role capability?

BTW; in case no mentioned it yet WELCOME TO THE FORUM.

D
 

Randy Haskin

Registered User
"for the amount of dollars put into that thing (100 MIL+?) you would think it would have some multi-role capability?"

I'll start out by saying *I DON'T KNOW*, but I agree with your statement. I have actually heard that there is some easy add-on strike capability due to the nature of the jet's avionics. Making the APG-77 ground map would be an easy software change as would giving it terrain-following capability. A bombing computer and interfaces for GPS weapons would also be easy programming add-ons. The big concern (by people who don't seem to be tactical fighter pilots) is that hanging a bunch of bombs underneath the wings would kill the jet's stealthiness.

Well, that's a good point and all, but I'm willing to accept that in light of the jet's improvements over the F-15E in terms of radar, RWR, jammer, etc.

From how I've seen the AF treat the F-15E community in the short time I've been in it, I fully expect to *not* see a replacement for the jet. Ever.

If there ever is a Mud Raptor (again, I sincerely hope there is), it will be a complete afterthought just as the F-15E was.

"BTW; in case no mentioned it yet WELCOME TO THE FORUM."

Thank you...glad to see another excellent military aviation board out there.

D


[/quote]
 

Tripp

You think you hate it now...
quote:I understand that Air Dominance Fighter means just that, a pure-breed fighter, but for the amount of dollars put into that thing (100 MIL+?) you would think it would have some multi-role capability?
Dave (& Randy), from what I've read in the media, the Raptor is strictly a fighter aircraft. The way I understand it, the strike-fighter/mud pounder role would be filled by the JSF. But it seems the Bush Administration doesn't want to fund both projects, so...we're back where we started, hehe.

Oh, and Jeff--I wouldn't go to Vance. Why on earth would you want to be stationed in the middle of Oklahoma? Personally, I'd do Whiting (hehe, I already have a house about 10 mins. away), but would go to Corpus before Vance. My 2¢.

Edited by - Tripp on 04/12/2001 19:55:44
 
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