IRR Courses in a CAC only world...

[subreservist]

Also signed up to JPME...I figure I'm gonna need this in the push to O5 (just made O4 last October). I tried to sign to the CD-ROM section and got the "no-go" reply...I was extremely tempted to just put I was sea-going in my app, but the integrity kicked in...as fast as this person responds, I don't think they are doing much of a check into backgrounds, but still...so, I did a new one for web-based and most likely will get the approval tomorrow and wait my turn for actually getting into a module...

Of course for those that are sea-going, you most likely will not always be sea-going, so I would think the smart ones would sign up towards the end of deployment and roll into shore duty (or the reserves) with the CD's in hand...

FYI for my IRR brothers that there are 2 week Operational Support Courses that are open to ALL reservists...completing them will give you either 100%, 50% or 30% of a module -> link: http://www.usnwc.edu/Departments---Colleges/Reserve-Liaison/Operational-Support-Reserve-Course.aspx

Of course, everyone doesn't have 2 weeks (or 6 weeks altogether) to give in support of this, but this is the route I'm taking if my 1st choice doesn't pan out, which is awaiting the results of the in-residence board that I applied to. I don't need the masters, but figure I can go active and get paid for the schooling.

There is also a recent letter on Army JPME distance learning, also...looks kinda treacherous, but I may drop an application there, too (it is also a masters program).

 

[vxc961]

Of course for those that are sea-going, you most likely will not always be sea-going, so I would think the smart ones would sign up towards the end of deployment and roll into shore duty (or the reserves) with the CD's in hand...

FYI for my IRR brothers that there are 2 week Operational Support Courses that are open to ALL reservists...completing them will give you either 100%, 50% or 30% of a module -> link: http://www.usnwc.edu/Departments---Colleges/Reserve-Liaison/Operational-Support-Reserve-Course.aspx

Of course, everyone doesn't have 2 weeks (or 6 weeks altogether) to give in support of this, but this is the route I'm taking if my 1st choice doesn't pan out, which is awaiting the results of the in-residence board that I applied to. I don't need the masters, but figure I can go active and get paid for the schooling.

There is also a recent letter on Army JPME distance learning, also...looks kinda treacherous, but I may drop an application there, too (it is also a masters program).

1) SubRes, be careful what you wish for... I started the CD program years ago, then looked at the books and CDs for months. Finally I put the CD in, and then I couldn't figure out how to navigate. After about a week, I got to the first test, and was freaked out that I wouldn't pass it, so I studied my tail off! As much as I hate to admit it, I think the web-enabled is the way to go. They really drag you along. There might be a few late nights, or a few papers turned in that are so so sub-par that you can't look at yourself in the mirror, but I think no matter what, everybody gets through it and passes. In my experience, the "B-" grade covers everything from a B+ to an F, as long as you turn in the HW.

2) Let us know what you find out about the OpSup courses. I looked into it a while ago, and you get 100% credit for Strategy & War, so that's a good deal. I'm pretty sure though that anything less than that doesn't do you any good. The web-enabled course at least isn't designed so that you can pop in 30% of the way through the course and start, or finish 30% early. It seems to me that all you get is the satisfaction of knowing you get 30% credit...then you have to take the whole course. Or, if I read the announcements correctly, they recommend you've already taken the distance course before the equivalent 2-week session!

3) I sort of kind of enjoyed NWC JPME...the Army distance one sounds neat, PLUS it would be cool to get a Master's out of the deal. Again, post if you find anything else out! Looked you have to have your service nominate you for the Army one, so I'm not sure how that would work in the IRR.

 

[subreservist]

vxc, you actually read my mind!

1) Your assessment on the "B-" grade is accurate...pretty much all graduate work does this. You have to really "try" in order to fail grad work...

2) S&W will be the first I attempt for this very reason and will ask around about how the others work. This is why I wanted to just do the CD program, as I figure you could pick and choose. But they do advertise this on their website with the web-enabled, but as you say, how do they separate it out? I will DEFINITELY get the answer for the other 2 modules before just doing those 2 weeks. There was a letter that just came out today on the reserve selectees for the latest Theater 2 week course and it was pretty good list (around 50 names), so others are doing. I will most likely send them an email blast in the summer to get the answer (in addition to contacting the program coordinator).

3) I know in the IRR, you still have someone who acts has the person in charge for the area. The easiest way would be to use a NOSC CO if one is close. The recommendation can be generic. It just needs to be in the package to put a check in box. But I realize for an IRR that can still be a pain.

Obviously, if the in-residence thing comes through, I will drop all of these alternatives. I think there are only 9 packages, but you never know how many quotas. I figure there are at least 5.

 

[subreservist]

As expected, a quick entry to the web-enabled program, but based on the feedback I got from the course coordinator on the operational support courses, I'm gonna wait to sign up to a course...probably til the end of the summer. The strat and war course is in September and that's the earliest one I can do. I'd rather do the 2 week course and finish the remainder.

She basically recommended for those doing the 2 week courses to complete the course first then do the module. She claims the modules are broken up into units and the course will give credit towards certain units. She also gave me the feeling that this whole process is new and still being ironed out as they still have to coordinate with other departments to figure out specifically which units will be covered/credited.

The good news for me is I'll be able to pick brains of folks doing the TDSM course in April.

 

[vxc961]

Nice! Good luck! I had eyed that S&W 2-week course too. It was my favorite of them all. Unlike ATMahan, I *hated* TSDM!!! Granted, he's probably smarter than I am, but to me it was a lot of that "what is leadership? Leadership, to me is..." kind of stuff. That was also the class where we had weekly discussion requirements, which was a pain. That class in particular is the one that makes me think it'd be tough to either jump in halfway (if you already had 30% credit) or whatever, because you really got to work with your small group throughout the course. Please let me know how your experience is--each of my three courses was run *very* differently, and I'm still not sure if that was the nature of the course or just that the Prof's have the freedom to run it as they see fit.

 

[subreservist]

Well, as is expected, you get different responses depending on who you ask...admittedly, the person I spoke with on the phone did not give a warm fuzzy like she really knew (although she is the operational support manager/coordinator listed on the website).

I got this response from the web course coordinator via email:

"CDR Pastorin runs that program so best to ask him follow on questions. Professor Magill runs the CD Program in case you have questions for him.
RO S&W counts for full credit in Web and CD for that course.
RO TSMD counts only toward CD TSDM course credit, I believe it is the first half. You get zero credit if you take Web TSDM course.
RO JMO counts for the last two blocks in Web and CD. So in web you start the course with your cohort and then tell us you have completed the RO JMO course and so you are done with the course when you complete all but the first two blocks."

I sent an email to CDR Pastorin to get his take, but what is being said above kinda supports vxc's thoughts...

My take (or hope...lol) is that anyone who takes the 2 week course for TSDM is allowed to finish via CD, as it makes no sense to do the course and get 0 credit for the web program. And it's all a little contradictory, because I'm sure the folks doing TSDM are getting credit, which means they must be finishing via CD, which means there must be some flexibility to the "at-sea" requirement to get the CD.

 

[Sam I am]

Okay....progress. I applied for NWC back in Dec and was accepted almost immediately and then put in queue for a module. I received this email last week:

Dear Applicant: (Please read the entire message before responding)
We are in receipt of your application for enrollment in our Web-Enabled Core Courses Program. I am pleased to be able to offer you a confirmed seat in the cohort that starts in May 2014 in our Theater Security Decision Making Course. If you wish to accept this offer, your prompt response is critical. YOU MUST RESPOND TO CONFIRM YOUR SEAT NLT than Tuesday 11 March 2014; seats not confirmed by that time will be forfeited.

If you accept please reply to this message and confirm (tell us specifically) your primary mailing address, your home and work phone numbers, and the primary e-mail address you will use for this course. (If I don't confirm about 10% of student do not get log-on information, or end of course recognition.)

This Web-Enabled TSDM Course runs for approximately 24 weeks (from 21 May 2014 until 07 October 2014), during which you would be expected to do assigned readings and review multimedia course material online, participate with your classmates in discussions of what you're learning using asynchronous "discussion boards" and complete any examinations or written assignments. The level of effort required is intended to be 6-8 hours of work per week. To be clear to all who might be interested in these courses, these are JPME Phase One; Command and Staff or Intermediate Level courses. The Navy does not offer ANY distance education Senior Level or JPME Phase Two course.

So...I'm going to pull the trigger and bite off the course. Through the summer could be a MAJOR drag, but at least it sounds like I'm paying the pain up front. In other news...my first look at O-5 is next week...keep your fingers crossed.

 

[subreservist]

Well, to close the loop (I hope) on my quest for info...I sent out an email blast to the folks selected for the TSDM course last year and got back a timely response from a fellow LCDR...

"Sorry you have struggled to get a 'straight answer'. It's really pretty great - you do go to Newport for 50% of the course. When you leave, they give you a CD that is the other 50%. When you have completed the contents of that CD, you request an assessment and when you complete that, your TSDM requirement has been met. So, you do get the credit and I hope that helps some.
Regarding your 3rd paragraph, that's right (as I understand it), you can't compete for a spot at Newport if you are already enrolled in web-based TSDM. And CD-only is reserved for deployed members only. Again, hope that helps some."

So it appears you have access to a specific CD...so the trick is to actually get selected for a spot!

 

[vxc961]

Well, to close the loop (I hope) on my quest for info...I sent out an email blast to the folks selected for the TSDM course last year and got back a timely response from a fellow LCDR...

"Sorry you have struggled to get a 'straight answer'. It's really pretty great - you do go to Newport for 50% of the course. When you leave, they give you a CD that is the other 50%. When you have completed the contents of that CD, you request an assessment and when you complete that, your TSDM requirement has been met. So, you do get the credit and I hope that helps some.
Regarding your 3rd paragraph, that's right (as I understand it), you can't compete for a spot at Newport if you are already enrolled in web-based TSDM. And CD-only is reserved for deployed members only. Again, hope that helps some."

So it appears you have access to a specific CD...so the trick is to actually get selected for a spot!

Nice! Thanks for doing the research, and good luck! Seems like a much, MUCH easier way to take the course!

 

[J.Bourne]

IRR is truly the Navy's way of saying we want you when we need you but until then we are going to do everything to get in your way.

I just found out four months ago I was put in the IRR because my desig is overmanned (but my specialized training is underrepresented). The reserves repeatedly stated they hadn't decided but I just received a letter which shows a decision date back in January. The IRR help desk suggested working on my pts and suggested NKO (which requires CAC), went to the local NOSC to assist activating my certificates but was told, they can not help me because I was IRR; I thought the NOSC was the reserve center; are we not reserves? When I called the IRR to see how else to do points or to learn anything (like the year date is it FY, CY, or Service Year, when to muster, how PRTs work, etc) they stated it was all in the welcome aboard packet but "we haven't sent you a welcome aboard packet because we don't have enough money to buy envelopes". In four months, they can not afford an envelope? I found Airwarriors as the only way to learn anything about IRR.

For the JPME-1. The class is really interesting. We had a few people take the cd version while deployed and state it wasn't applicable or well developed; they dropped it and switched to the air force version which after finishing felt it it was more streamlined, relevant to today's military, and gained a much better understanding. My former O-6 Dept Head once commented the air force was the only way to go and only take the Navy cd/web version as a last resort. If you can sign up for the Fleet Seminar program (only offered at select major CONUS fleet concentrated areas), I would recommend it. I enjoyed my last two classes a lot and feel that I actually learned something. We had representatives from all the services, active and reserves, NSA, Secret Service, State, Senator's aides, and others who all give different perspectives.

 

[subreservist]

IRR is truly the Navy's way of saying we want you when we need you but until then we are going to do everything to get in your way.

The IRR help desk suggested working on my pts and suggested NKO (which requires CAC), went to the local NOSC to assist activating my certificates but was told, they can not help me because I was IRR.

When I called the IRR to see how else to do points or to learn anything (like the year date is it FY, CY, or Service Year, when to muster, how PRTs work, etc) they stated it was all in the welcome aboard packet.

For the JPME-1: My former O-6 Dept Head once commented the air force was the only way to go and only take the Navy cd/web version as a last resort. If you can sign up for the Fleet Seminar program (only offered at select major CONUS fleet concentrated areas), I would recommend it.

I paraphased some of your comments...the NKO thing is definitely an issue for IRR...reading back through this thread should help. The NOSC generally supports SELRES; the only thing I think they do is process the paperwork for those wanting to switch from SELRES to IRR; going back the other way or getting help while IRR is done through the help desk (but don't quote me on that). They should be able to tell you your anniversary year (which is what you want to focus on primarily for a good year toward retirement), but the fiscal year is important, too. I've never really known for the calendar year to be important, but you never know.

From what I know, there is an annual virtual muster (there is no PRT requirement). Check this link: http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/career/reservepersonnelmgmt/IRR/Pages/default2.aspx

You might have to play with it, and realize that most times NPC sites are down outside normal business hours (it's actually down right now!)

I have wanted to sign up to Airforce for JPME based on some stating the curriculum was more updated and less painful to get through, but the website seems to be always down.

 

[vxc961]

1) The Air Force one sucks, in my opinion. Lot's of "what is leadership? What IS leadership? WHAT is leadership? To Air Sgt Smith, leadership is..." Navy web-enabled got me to learn about Sun Tzu, Clausewitz, as well as study some cool naval battles (Russo-Japanese war, Falklands in particular).
2) I got somewhat on the IRR J. Bourne, so PM any questions you have. It's worth getting 36pts a year at least.
3) We could start a whole new thread on how "helpful" NOSCs are, or how the system (NKO, CAC, etc...) is not set up to support IRR. Look on the bright side though, those of us that can figure out the IRR should have less competition, AND our weekends free!
4) I'm actually looking at going SELRES again, and have been courtesy drilling with a USMC unit. I'm not mr. "kiss the ring", but it's shocking to be reminded by Marines that sometimes people do respect the rank. Every time I got by the NOSC, it's like I'm dealing with my 14 year old son...eye rolling, slouching, no eye-contact when talking to me, etc...

Good luck!

 

[vxc961]

IRR is truly the Navy's way of saying we want you when we need you but until then we are going to do everything to get in your way.

I just found out four months ago I was put in the IRR because my desig is overmanned (but my specialized training is underrepresented).

J. Bourne: I'm curious what your desig/sub-specialty are?
-Your anniversary date is the big thing to worry about. It's when you signed on the dotted line. For me it's when I started as a NUPOC, others it's when they showed up at OCS, for more it's commissioning date. You'll still 15 gratuity points, so shoot to have 36pts (35+1) in each anniversary year.
-You can't do NKO in the IRR, but you can do CNET courses. Google "Navy non-resident training" and it'll come up, and check out this forum for advice on the easier courses.
-You can get a marinenet account too, you'll just have to fax the points into Bupers (yes, I've done this and verified I got credit for the courses).
-You can sign up to become a Naval Academy Blue and Gold Officer(BGO) even if you aren't USNA. Once you've gone through the initial summer training, you can get points for you time.
-If you're not in a "fleet concentration area", you can sign up through the local NOSC to do funeral honors detail (get points AND get paid!).
-I think you can also volunteer with JROTC, Sea Cadets, and Sea Scouts...but I'm not as knowledgeable on those.
-You can look into joining the Voluntary Training Unit, and get the fun of drilling without any pay (but you get support from the NOSC).

One of the toughest things about the IRR, especially if you're "skimming" points, is that it's impossible to figure out what you've been credited with. Out of the last 18 months of my BGO points I think I had one month count? I've got funerals that aren't credited, as well as courses, but since I can't log into bupers I have to do crazy algebra to figure out what points I'm missing and see where that puzzle piece fits.

Promotion is another sticky thing. If you're an O-3, you MUST make O-4 to get your 20. You're going to want to prep for the board. If you're an O-4 you can get 20, but can't really afford to have a bad year.

Stick around here and ask questions...lots of good info on here! Good luck!

 

[J.Bourne]

It's been a learning experience. Thanks to airwarriors, I've learned a lot and signed up for MarineNet and NRTC. I have 130+ days of AD this year so I'll wait until after my anniversary. Learning how many points you have is interesting, you can't log into BOL but at least NPC will tell you if called. I am concerned about ensuring they will have everything if you have to call every time (after four months, still have 0 pts recorded and no record of my AD experience requiring another copy of my -214).

One question about promotions. Reservist O-4s in Supply are severely undermanned so that is good, but I was passed over twice on AD (missed/denied a check in the block required for AD O-4s and considered ineligible). Because of this and the normal fitrep games I received a few "P" fitreps "not because of your performance but because you are ineligible for promotion" and "if we evaluated you on your performance, you would just take an EP away from one of the LTs who can still promote", at least the CO was honest. My concern is although IRRs are eligible for promotion, looking at my record, I went from EP to P, passed over twice, separated, and haven't done anything since joining the reserves, they'll bypass me and good bye 20 years.

 

[subreservist]

One question about promotions. Reservist O-4s in Supply are severely undermanned so that is good, but I was passed over twice on AD (missed/denied a check in the block required for AD O-4s and considered ineligible). Because of this and the normal fitrep games I received a few "P" fitreps "not because of your performance but because you are ineligible for promotion" and "if we evaluated you on your performance, you would just take an EP away from one of the LTs who can still promote", at least the CO was honest. My concern is although IRRs are eligible for promotion, looking at my record, I went from EP to P, passed over twice, separated, and haven't done anything since joining the reserves, they'll bypass me and good bye 20 years.

Unless you have a break in service between active and reserve duty, I wouldn't be concerned about this. At least not yet. You will get another set of looks for reserve O4 and the criteria for selection is a little more relaxed. Also, the promotion numbers for reserves are generally much higher than active. I haven't looked at Supply but URL officers have been at 90%/90%/85% selection for the last 3 cycles. If supply is similar, then your chances are good. But if you FOS on the first look, you might want to consider drilling for the following year and checking a few blocks just to increase your chance on the 2nd look.

Also, you mentioned you separated? Not sure if you mean you initiated the action or they separated you after FOS? Meaning the Navy provided you with a separation bonus? Worth noting, I have heard that those who receive separation pay have that taken back in the event they reach a military retirement. So if you manage to stay reserve and get your 20, your monthly payments will be offset by the separation pay received.