How long is the P-3 RAG?

[Bonko]

So when you get your 700 hours in FRS you become PPC, reason I ask was earlier it was stated 18 months about to become PPC that sounds like you go through 3-P and 2-P pilot duties fairly quickly I would have thought you would've been a 2-P for at least my first sea tour.

4 hour flights arn't too bad. I am sure you start to get bored straight and level close to around 7-8 hours though.

I am actually glad in a way everyone was as confused on how they track time as I was. I was talking to a former A-4 aviator and he was saying it gets confusing if you ever decide to go to civilian flying since Civi time starts when the plane starts, and military time starts when the wheels lift off. He says airlines have some way of converting your time over.

I personally plan to not join the civilian world and just do a full Navy career.

 

[zab1001]

So when you get your 700 hours in FRS you become PPC, reason I ask was earlier it was stated 18 months about to become PPC that sounds like you go through 3-P and 2-P pilot duties fairly quickly I would have thought you would've been a 2-P for at least my first sea tour.

Um, no. The FRS is like 12-13 flights (someone else is more current on this than me). You come out a conditionally qualified as a 3P.

The you go to your Sea Tour. Usually you upgrade in your Fleet squadron (NOT the FRS) to PPC in 18 months-ish. That means roughly 9-ish months as a 3P and 9-ish as a 2P. The next 18 months as a PPC. Or so. YMMV.

 

[Bonko]

Um, no. The FRS is like 12-13 flights (someone else is more current on this than me). You come out a conditionally qualified as a 3P.

The you go to your Sea Tour. Usually you upgrade in your Fleet squadron (NOT the FRS) to PPC in 18 months-ish. That means roughly 9-ish months as a 3P and 9-ish as a 2P. The next 18 months as a PPC. Or so. YMMV.

Ok see that makes so much more sense. I guess they were talking about once they were out of FRS. Thank you for clarifying

 

[Flash]

Not necessarily. I knew a couple 18 guys that would always fly 1.1's or 1.2's and log them as 1.5+. If they give themselves more flight time on the NAVFLIR it only means the inspections will roll around sooner. No big deal.

That is pretty significant padding and not the norm from my experience. Pilots love more flight time in their log book but that is treading into the gray area. Almost as bad as the guys who would pull back the power to get an extra 0.2 on the way home. Seriously, you ain't helping yourself or your crewmembers when you do that.

 

[Bonko]

That is pretty significant padding and not the norm from my experience. Pilots love more flight time in their log book but that is treading into the gray area. Almost as bad as the guys who would pull back the power to get an extra 0.2 on the way home. Seriously, you ain't helping yourself or your crewmembers when you do that.

This again makes me curious. After you have the 700 hours required for PPC why would guys be so desperate to get .2 I didn't think hours were such a big deal in the military. Do they work into promotions or something? I can't think of a reason I would need to have an extra 1000 hours at the end of the 8 years. Even if they are worrying about Civi jobs they would have plenty of hours. Seems silly to pad the time.

 

[Gatordev]

It is a big deal. Padding hours is shady at best and can result in massive repurcussions in the Navy. Not to mention the integrity issue. Seen it happen. Not pretty.

Not to mention it jacks up the Maintenance plan. It's not like Mx control walks in and looks at the flight schedule and sees how much time they're supposed to support that day. This stuff gets layed out ahead of time. So when someone comes in and logs w/ a fat pencil, it screws up the plans for the rest of the week/month/underway/whatever.

This was a battle I fought w/ my Det OpsO on my MO cruise. He would work w/ my Chief and they would come out w/ what the plan was for that underway period (usually 2 weeks) assuming a 3.0 bag for each sortie. However, he also wanted to get hours, so he would come back from flying and every time log at least .3 over 3.0. Sometimes it was warranted (due to delays or operational needs), but often it wasn't. Then at the end of the week, he'd come and complain to me because the bird went down sooner than expected due to specials. Yeah, jackass, that's what happens when you log heavy.... I'm not sure that ever completely sunk in.

 

[Flash]

This again makes me curious. After you have the 700 hours required for PPC why would guys be so desperate to get .2 I didn't think hours were such a big deal in the military. Do they work into promotions or something? I can't think of a reason I would need to have an extra 1000 hours at the end of the 8 years. Even if they are worrying about Civi jobs they would have plenty of hours. Seems silly to pad the time.

It is. The main excuse I heard was to get more time for civilian flying jobs, but it doesn't make sense even when looked at it that way since it really wouldn't add too much time. The ironic part, the worst offender in my first squadron never got a civi flying job since he was such a prick.

 

[Bonko]

its for the flight pay isn't it... sheesh

 

[zab1001]

its for the flight pay isn't it... sheesh

You'll get your required hours for flight pay without padding hours. If for some reason you don't get the hours, you get a waiver.

 

[Bonko]

Yea the civilian world loves military guys anyways you don't need thousands of hours more. The military expirience is worth hand over fist the hours you get in the civi world. Oh well, at least that guy didn't get the job at the end. Serves him right.

 

[MIDNJAC]

its for the flight pay isn't it... sheesh

Flight pay is a fixed amount per month regardless of flight hours, provided you meet the minimums for flight pay itself.

 

[Ken_gone_flying]

It is a big deal. Padding hours is shady at best and can result in massive repurcussions in the Navy. Not to mention the integrity issue. Seen it happen. Not pretty.

I should have said that better in my post. When I said "no big deal", I was talking in terms of safety of flight, since the inspections would pop up sooner, than later. But yeah, I definitely agree that is dishonorable to pad flight hours.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Yea the civilian world loves military guys anyways you don't need thousands of hours more. The military expirience is worth hand over fist the hours you get in the civi world. Oh well, at least that guy didn't get the job at the end. Serves him right.

You are so naive. The civilian world see value in military flight time if it is the right type of flight time.

Multi-engine, multi-pilot, fixed-wing - great stuff.

Multi-engine, single pilot, fixed-wing - good stuff.

Single-engine, single pilot, fixed-wing - acceptable stuff, you might have to get some civilian multi-engine to meet the minimum requirements.

Any helo - get enough civilian multi-engine, fixed-wing to meet the minimum requirements. Until then, the helo time is meaningless. After that, it shows aeronautical experience.

With the ratio of civilian trained to military trained pilots now favoring the civilian side, the "value" of military training in the hiring process is decreasing.

What military training/time does for you is let you go to the civilian world having (hopefully) already met the minimum/competitive flight time requirements for a pilot job at a major airline. It (hopefully) lets you skip the whole instructing and regional phases of the career. It's also a great networking tool as most former military are willing to help one another out. Plus it is a great tie-breaker if everything else is equal. The quality of your flight training and flight time is known where it can always be questionable if it is purely civilian.

And those F-18 guys making their 1.2 flights a 1.5 - if it is in their civilian logbook, that is a common conversion to account for the difference in the way time is logged. If it is in their military paperwork, it's unacceptable.

 

[Bonko]

You are so naive. The civilian world see value in military flight time if it is the right type of flight time...

Well I will admit I am still young and just getting in I am no expert by any means. I shall sit down now and shut up :icon_wink keep my foot from slamming into my mouth. Hopefully I will learn something.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Don't take the naive comment as a slam. It wasn't.