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helo questions for helo folks
- Thread starter dodge
- Start date
dodge said:
1. The time that it takes to go from PQM (Pilot Qualified in Model) to H2P, to HAC is different for every community. The time lines are even different from squadron to squadron in the same communities.
I am an HS guy, and our standard is that you have to be a HAC in 2 years. About 18-20 months is when most guys pick it up in my squadron. Most Sierra pilots make HAC a lot faster, but they don't have as many mission areas to focus on as HS and HSL guys do. A lot of it also has to do with when you show up to your squadron. I checked in the day that my squadron went on deployment, so there were not a lot of opportunities for ULT (Unit Level Training is when you do your syllabus flights) until a few months after we got back from the gulf. If you check in right before workups, you can get a card done on every flight and it would be possible to be a HAC in about 14 months.
When you check in, your training officer will hand you your PQS, and he should be able to give you some kind of feedback on what your timeline is.
2. We fly with everyone in the squadron while we are in early stages of training. When we get closer to deployment, we set up "Combat Crews". Each pilot has an aircrewmen assigned to them, and they always fly together. We also split the sqadron into Blue/Gold teams, so when we are in the Gulf we send the HH's to the beach, one team (7-8 pilots and 7-8 AWs) will go for 2 week stretches. It is a really good system that keeps everyone fresh and the teamwork works really well. You get used to your aircrewman's voice, so you know that he is on the gun behind you, it really ramps up the crew coordination.
The HSL dets that are going with us on next cruise are taking 6 pilots and 3 AW's on their det. They do not use the "Combat Crew" concept, but with such limited numbers, it would really be impossible.
Bravo on the info Bevo...nailed that side of the house and a lot of our side too. Rep points.
Just to tack on:
Our schedule both at homeguard and out to see is base more on currencies.
With HSL/HSC detachments of 2 helos you get 7 pilots (including the OIC) 1 MO (LDO/non-flyer in HSC, pilot in HSL) 1 Maint. Chief, and generally 18-20 enlisted, 7-9 of who are AW/Aircrew. Thats when you get to know your copilots well. Back at homeguard...it's a hodgepodge of who's current and who needs to get current.
~D
Just to tack on:
Our schedule both at homeguard and out to see is base more on currencies.
With HSL/HSC detachments of 2 helos you get 7 pilots (including the OIC) 1 MO (LDO/non-flyer in HSC, pilot in HSL) 1 Maint. Chief, and generally 18-20 enlisted, 7-9 of who are AW/Aircrew. Thats when you get to know your copilots well. Back at homeguard...it's a hodgepodge of who's current and who needs to get current.
~D
You've got HSC and HS info, so I'll do the HSL thing...
Pretty much the same as above. Like Chunks said, HSL is more like HSC, since we det out. The two years thing is per OPNAV, although it reads "usually in 24 months" (or at least it did as of version 3710.7S, not sure for Tango). Pretty much everyone follows that guideline and makes it a rule. Deployment schedules really is the main variable. I made HAC in 13 Months, but only because I showed up to the squadron a week before I started workups.
For me in the beginning, HAC was this thing that sounded cool, but looked like WAY too much work for it really to be that good of a deal. By the time of my HAC board, I was ready to go and looked forward to running my own aircraft and mission, and of course, making mistakes along the way which helps you learn.
Pretty much the same as above. Like Chunks said, HSL is more like HSC, since we det out. The two years thing is per OPNAV, although it reads "usually in 24 months" (or at least it did as of version 3710.7S, not sure for Tango). Pretty much everyone follows that guideline and makes it a rule. Deployment schedules really is the main variable. I made HAC in 13 Months, but only because I showed up to the squadron a week before I started workups.
For me in the beginning, HAC was this thing that sounded cool, but looked like WAY too much work for it really to be that good of a deal. By the time of my HAC board, I was ready to go and looked forward to running my own aircraft and mission, and of course, making mistakes along the way which helps you learn.
In HM/HC, a person usually makes HAC within 18-24 months. There are Wing guidelines. In our Wing (CHSCWL), 53 bubs need 500 hours total time to make HAC. Usually after a H2P deployment most folks have the hours. Figure you have around 210-230 coming out of flight school.
There are 2 levels of Aircraft Commanders for the HM world. The first is HAC, as discussed above. The second is Airborne Mine Countermeasures (AMCM) Mission Commander (aka AHAC). That is really a mission qual to sign for and execute an AMCM mission. I think we have 30 months to make that gate.
HM/HC pretty much dets out too.....
There are 2 levels of Aircraft Commanders for the HM world. The first is HAC, as discussed above. The second is Airborne Mine Countermeasures (AMCM) Mission Commander (aka AHAC). That is really a mission qual to sign for and execute an AMCM mission. I think we have 30 months to make that gate.
HM/HC pretty much dets out too.....
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Some squadrons also throw their own hours requirements on there.
I damn near got FENAB'd because I made HAC at 22-1/2 months. Came home early from cruise due to a family emergency and had well over 500/350/250 (the written requirements for us) but I did not meet the "magic number" and had to wait a year to go on a second H2P cruise.
Then some guys get waivers for not meeting the 250 hours in model. Go figure.
I damn near got FENAB'd because I made HAC at 22-1/2 months. Came home early from cruise due to a family emergency and had well over 500/350/250 (the written requirements for us) but I did not meet the "magic number" and had to wait a year to go on a second H2P cruise.
Then some guys get waivers for not meeting the 250 hours in model. Go figure.
Hey Helo dudes, how many hours do you walk out of your typical JO tour with? total hours and hours in type? How hard is it to make IP?
I really wanted to go helos and I kick myself now and again for not putting more effort into making that happen (not that i hate where I am now or anything, but helos look like they're more fun to fly).
I really wanted to go helos and I kick myself now and again for not putting more effort into making that happen (not that i hate where I am now or anything, but helos look like they're more fun to fly).
No IP qual in helo land, except if you're at the HTs or the RAG. There's lots of quals where you are required to have an instructor for the event (NVG, TACFORM, Level training), but no actual IP qual like the Prop guys have. Hours, like everything else, depends on community and number of deployments. Generally, though, walking out w/ 1000 hours is probably the norm if you got 2 deployments. So 1k-ish model, 1200-ish total, just for the sake of round numbers.
Back in the day it was pretty standard to make HAC on your first cruise - by then you had 600-700 hours total. Usually the DET OIC had a fitrep bullet based on getting all three H2P's trained up to HAC - so it was in his/her intrest to et you trained, develop your judgement and airmanship and give you your HAC check while deployed. It was rare that this didn't happen - e.g. you had to be a complete tool. And really making HAC was just another license to learn. I learned more about operational flying on my HAC cruise...BigIron said:
I left HC-6 as a junior O-3 with well over 1000 in model maybe 1300 total and rolled right to the HT's. I shunned ground jobs (or delegated the work to enior enlisted types) so I could focus on the flying I enjoyed - but that's just me. I showed very little intrest in wearing kahkis and doing a ground job - could come up with results to get A's on fitreps by just getting the right senior enlisted types to do the work for me in those areas.
I did get NATOPS Instructor, FCF, FCF instructor as well - and made it easy for Ops to schedule me ...
Part of the game.