GUN THREAD, ala Nozeman

[NozeMan]

Hey all,

I did some work at the range today and tried out a variety of new toys. Shot the Glock 23, Sig 225 and 229 and SW 99. The Sigs are fantastic, but unfortunately out of my price range even when they are used (I'd llike to stay under 500). The .40 Glock was pretty good, but their lack of safeties is kinda stearing me away from Glock all together. I like the de-cock feature of Sig and Walther, but Glocks had none of those, I didnt even know if there was a round in the chamber etc. I finally caught on to the fact that new handguns don't have the traditional disengage type safety that i thought would be standard. So with that said, I looked at the Springfields. They felt like a cross between the Glock and Sig (but i never shot it). I really liked the the indicator on the weapon that shows if its cocked, and if it has a round in the chamber. Plus the grip safety was great as well. What are your thoughts on the Springfield XD 9mm or .40? I shot both calibers today, and am very successful with both. Any suggestions welcomed!

weapon here:
https://www.gilbertsguns.com/store/products/category8/1394.html?ck_SID=29f8a6aafa9a1d0695cd1a4c37e

 

[Grant]

Glocks have a trigger safety, so you're wrong about the "lack of safety". http://www.glock.com/trigger_safety.htm They dont have a decock feature, because they're double-action-only. Not possible to decock something thats not cocked in the first place.

I'm usually not wild about double-action-only pistols, but I really like Springfield XD's, I'd like to get one in .45 GAP one day.

 

[ZRX04]

I bought the Glock 23 a couple weeks back as my first gun. I chose it because it was the right gun at the right price. I purchased it for concealed carry and home defense. The .40 is a much better round than the 9mm. The 9mm is simply too weak (why the military abandoned the .45 is beyond my ability to comprehend). I didn't want the size and the recoil of the .45 so .40 was perfect. The .40 has largely become the standard compromise between power and size. It is also abundantly available and cheap. Going to something relatively exotic like the .45 GAP will cost you, both in initial purchase price and subsequent ammunition. If you can find an official Glock Stocking Dealer (thats what they're called) then you can get the military rate in purchasing Glocks. The G23 retails at like $490 from a Stocking Dealer, and I got mine for $439, brand-spanking new. Most standard gun shops retail the G23 at about $600.

As far as safety, if you look, there is little difference in the XD and the Glock. They operate on very similar priciples. The XD has the additional grip safety thing. You cannot fire a Glock without depressing the trigger. Accidental discharges due to droppage or movement are virtually non-existant in modern pistols, provided that you keep the gun clean and in excellent working condition. I like the fact that the Glock does not have a typical safety system. It's always ready to fire when I might need it; I don't have to think about flipping a safety as I draw.

Finally, as far as your concern for knowing if the gun is loaded. While it is true you should always treat a gun as if it is loaded. You should also know the condition you last left the gun. The Glock also now has a new extractor that gives a visible and tactile indication of the chamber. Granted it doesn't knock you over the head with the indication, but it is there. I carry my G23 with a full hi-cap magazine and a round in the chamber. If sh!t hits the fan, do you think you'll have time to rack the slide?

All this being said, Glocks are by no means the tip-top gun you can buy. Like I said, it was the right gun at the right price. They are workhorse guns, not glamour guns (if there is such a thing).

 

[Grant]

The .40 is a much better round than the 9mm. The 9mm is simply too weak (why the military abandoned the .45 is beyond my ability to comprehend).

Yes and no. A typical 9mm 115 grain FMJ round will probably not stop someone on the first shot, because it'll go right through somebody with tiny entry and exit wounds, doing very little damage. But if you use JHP rounds for defense, you'll stop just about anybody. I keep 124 grain JHP Federal Hydrashoks in my Ruger P95 9mm, for home defense. I surely wouldnt want to be on the receiving end of a Hydrashok, in any caliber.

But yeah, the .40 S&W is a fine choice too.

 

[ZRX04]

I do agree about the JHP assertion, especially if you double tap. I carry Speer GoldDot in my 13+1, and from the pictures i've seen of it fired I wouldn't want to be on the recieving end of that one either.

What I should have said in my original post is: shoot the biggest round with which you are comfortable. If you can handle a .50 cal DE and think you can conceal it (HA!) by all means... I would.

 

[Fly Navy]

Young Padawans, let me rectify your concerns of safety.

Both the SIG and the Glock safeties are mostly internal. Things like firing pin blocks, trigger disconnects, etc. You can't see them. SIG sometimes considers its decocker a safety mechanism and Glock considers its trigger safety a safety. Most SIG pistols are single/double actions. A Glock is not really a double-action only. It keeps the striker at a half-way state. They call it Safe Action. The point is, just because there is no level on the pistol to actuate a manual safety, does not mean the pistol does not have them. And in reality, on a double action pistol, you do NOT need a manual safety.

 

[Fly Navy]

The .40 is a much better round than the 9mm. The 9mm is simply too weak (why the military abandoned the .45 is beyond my ability to comprehend).

Yes and no. The .40 has more energy, yes. The 9mm is inherently more accurate. The 9mm NATO load that we use is a 124gr basically +P+ FMJ load. This translates into a lot of velocity and penetration. Most of the energy in that is not going to be placed into the target. This is because we can't use JHP in normal warfare. A good, solid 9mm +P (or +P+ if you feel suited to use it) JHP is just as deadly as a .40 or .45 JHP. Look at the numbers. They don't lie. I have more than enough confidence in the 15 Winchester Ranger-T 127gr +P+ JHPs in my pistol. It shouldn't be a mystery why the military switched. All of NATO uses 9mm. We were the only one to use .45. That, plus the rather dismal capacity of 7+1 in a 1911, made them chance. A large Soviet invasion into Western Europe and the Atlantic was going to cause major major major supply issues. Think you can get .45 ammo off a dead French, German, or English soldier?

By the way, the debate of .45 and 9mm is age old. The Germans complained about the 9mm they carried and US soldiers complained about the .45 they carried. Germans wanted more power, we wanted more capacity. It never stops.

 

[Fly Navy]

I like the de-cock feature of Sig and Walther, but Glocks had none of those, I didnt even know if there was a round in the chamber etc.

If you need this feature (round in chamber indicator), then I have a message for you:

[highlight]MORE FIREARM SAFETY TRAINING[/highlight]

Always Always ALWAYS check the chamber VISUALLY before accepting a firearm. If that's not in your habit pattern, then MAKE IT.

 

[ChuckMK23]

ahh the 4 RULES

Rule #1 : ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

Rule #2 : DO NOT ALLOW THE MUZZEL TO COVER ANYTHING YOU DO NOT INTEND TO DESTROY

Rule #3: FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL SIGHTS ARE ON TARGET


Rule #4: KNOW YOUR TARGET

 

[Lawman]

We have a saying at the range I go to, the only "Safe" Glock is an empty Glock. Good example being the 3 Accidental Discharges that have wounded officers due to the holster they were using. Im not a big fan of the company in general, and have severe beef with certain models (Such as the 10mm). They are a wonderful pistol for police departments on the fact that the majority of police officers are not shooters and do not take the care and time with sidearms that is warranted. You live by your gun, you die by your gun but some cops dont seem to learn that in the acadamy and forget even more on the job. They deal with neglect and misuse very well but there overpriced, and most of the reputation they have built as the "Choice of Law Enforcement" comes from the mouths of the very cops I just mentioned (who have no buisness making that statement). Basically anything a Glock will do, another pistol will do better in either a specific catagory or in many cases across the board. And now that they have started retailing in the mid 500 ranges (for a gun that cost 80 dollars to build), they have to compete with the SIG's that are vastly superior in nearly every dimension.

As for a decocker, I love having one. I carry a USP for my duty sidearm, and I carry it cocked and locked with the safety off. But! when I pull and then go to holster I decock the weapon and put it in safe, when its back in the holster I recock the hammer and unsafe the weapon, thus insuring I have all my toes at the end of a shift.