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FY-15 ADHSB
- Thread starter HooverPilot
- Start date
OP or OP-T?
At least 1 of the HSC guys picked up this time was a non-select on first look as well, I think there are a few more but I'm not 100% on them.
The guys who are in the block labeled "HSC AZ."
Also, since no one else has said it, congrats on DH.
Ha ha, thanks. I didn't actually check out the list since I've been traveling the past week. It was based on info I got by talking with some friends.The guys who are in the block labeled "HSC AZ."
Also, since no one else has said it, congrats on DH.
I guess it will be difficult to find the answer here, since most of the old heads stayed their 20+ years, but I'd like to hear (in A4s sassy fashion) what Big Navy did in the past during the previous periods airlines were the perceived land of milk and honey. Is this time really any different? Or is it different because the culture/fun of being a pilot is dead, is it a generational thing, or is it that there isn't really an enemy? (I read the retention article/study, I too have been uninspired by my leadership of the last 19 years, with very minor exceptions by B track COs).
Were the DHs who stayed because the airlines weren't hiring post 9/11 noted as being of higher quality?
I think the Navy has always been able to find folks to suck d*ck for beer money... beer/whiskey helps get the taste out, I know.
Top Gun/SWFT style 3 hour briefs for a .9 flight to a 3 hour debrief are not a new thing. O-4s boot licking, sacrificing their souls, crappy O-5 leadership, and O-3's backstabbing aren't new either. Not enough flying hours, broken jets, just in time readiness, and fake readiness are not new things. Carter draw down, Hollow Force years, mid-late 90s plagued the NAE in like fashion I believe.
The new things (IMO): LOOOOOOONG DEPLOYMENTS, quick turn arounds (so I've heard), perceived "good dudes" being burned at the stake publicly, Air Force -esque airborne rule compliance demand, the beginning of a generation who grew up on barney and got trophies for everything, simulator generated readiness, political regime support for the military in words only, no command bonus.
Were the DHs who stayed because the airlines weren't hiring post 9/11 noted as being of higher quality?
I think the Navy has always been able to find folks to suck d*ck for beer money... beer/whiskey helps get the taste out, I know.
Top Gun/SWFT style 3 hour briefs for a .9 flight to a 3 hour debrief are not a new thing. O-4s boot licking, sacrificing their souls, crappy O-5 leadership, and O-3's backstabbing aren't new either. Not enough flying hours, broken jets, just in time readiness, and fake readiness are not new things. Carter draw down, Hollow Force years, mid-late 90s plagued the NAE in like fashion I believe.
The new things (IMO): LOOOOOOONG DEPLOYMENTS, quick turn arounds (so I've heard), perceived "good dudes" being burned at the stake publicly, Air Force -esque airborne rule compliance demand, the beginning of a generation who grew up on barney and got trophies for everything, simulator generated readiness, political regime support for the military in words only, no command bonus.
Sounds like a pretty good summary to me (other than the .9 flight time). I think there's a generation that got a taste of the good life as it started to close up (just before and after 9/11) that now see the very things you mentioned happening.
Personally, while I decided to suck it up for another couple of years (while still getting to hop in an aircraft every week or so, which is a big help), I'm eagerly looking forward to hitting 20 and moving on to something else. As a JO all the way through my DH tour, I always said I'd never stick around for the money. Unfortunately now, I'm doing just that for one more tour, but I did the math and figured it was worth it to have a steady paycheck afterwards so I can figure out what I want to do when I grow up.
Personally, while I decided to suck it up for another couple of years (while still getting to hop in an aircraft every week or so, which is a big help), I'm eagerly looking forward to hitting 20 and moving on to something else. As a JO all the way through my DH tour, I always said I'd never stick around for the money. Unfortunately now, I'm doing just that for one more tour, but I did the math and figured it was worth it to have a steady paycheck afterwards so I can figure out what I want to do when I grow up.
Not as "sassy" as Ol' A4s, but I'm from that era, and everything in your post rings true. Interesting to note, there was no DH selection back in the day, that as in many other areas, was CO's prerogative. We usually ended up with fine DHs (and COs). Cannot recall ever hearing of a CO being fired for any problems with "command climate" or "moral turpitude", the few firings usually involved A/C accjdents/rates, or unit readiness issues.The pervasive embracing of PC has also become destructive to unit readiness and morale.
BzB
I tend to think the dissatisfaction is due to lack of flight hours and a focused mission and all the other distractions, such as focus on NKO, SAPR, etc are the symptoms of that. If there were more flight hours than you know what to do with everyone would fly to their heart's content and the other stuff would seem like a minor distraction. In my first squadron we suffered from too many pilots and not enough airframes or hours and life sucked. On my FDNF boat we were too damned busy to spend too much time worrying about NKO, SAPR, and their ilk. That shit just done quickly and everyone got back to work either executing the mission or getting the boat ready to go to sea.
Interesting take on squadron cultures from the newer "kid" on the block in the Navy blogosphere:Not as "sassy" as Ol' A4s, but I'm from that era, and everything in your post rings true. Interesting to note, there was no DH selection back in the day, that as in many other areas, was CO's prerogative. We usually ended up with fine DHs (and COs). Cannot recall ever hearing of a CO being fired for any problems with "command climate" or "moral turpitude", the few firings usually involved A/C accjdents/rates, or unit readiness issues.The pervasive embracing of PC has also become destructive to unit readiness and morale.
BzB
http://www.askskipper.com/2014/04/23/chinese-topgun/
Not as "sassy" as Ol' A4s, but I'm from that era, and everything in your post rings true. Interesting to note, there was no DH selection back in the day, that as in many other areas, was CO's prerogative. We usually ended up with fine DHs (and COs). Cannot recall ever hearing of a CO being fired for any problems with "command climate" or "moral turpitude", the few firings usually involved A/C accjdents/rates, or unit readiness issues.The pervasive embracing of PC has also become destructive to unit readiness and morale.
BzB
During my first tour, flight hours weren't an issue (until the end of my tour) and we also didn't have DH boards. The quality of O4/DH was pretty disturbing. There were good guys, no doubt, but there were also those that you wondered how they were able to write their FITREP, let alone do their DH job. Since the reinstatement of the DH board, I've seen douche nozzles make it back to the fleet, but I've also noticed a positive effect of the quality of people coming back.
I know, different era. As Pags is mentioning, there were different priorities in your day, BzB. While I'm not advocating being in a state of war, it does tend to focus people's priorities.
I'd argue that was (and with a good front office, still can be) how it was "just" a few years ago. It's amazing how people seem to get locked into the fact that because there's ready made training on the interwebs, they assume that's the only way that it can be completed. I remember being told before my second deployment that all of my maintainers needed to log in and do some <insert BS online training>. The shop had exactly 2 computers...for 17 people. Um, no, how about the <insert BS collateral duty Officer> briefs us all at once? Oh, problem solved.
I talked with a buddy "in the know" at the bureau. He says they are trying to buy back the Command Bonus.
I am personally skeptical that $12K (before taxes) is enough to matter.
I am personally skeptical that $12K (before taxes) is enough to matter.
At my second squadron we'd do GMT stand downs. A few hours of death by power point and you were good for the entire year. On the boat, acknowledging the shortage of bandwidth and computers, they'd put it on site tv and then the divisional yeoman would enter it in to RADM which pooped it to FLTMPS as complete. Now that I'm out of the Navy I can say things like this: if the man is going to make you BS training then do whatever it takes to make it fast and painless. If there was ever a place for gun decking.....
Another thought on retention: The ADHSB has made life even at the FNG level hyper competitive. Guys who were my DHs didn't know they were going to have a DHSB as JOs, so they enjoyed life a bit more. Now, as soon as you get to the squadron you know you need to do everything to get that EP and FRS/SWTI slot so you can at the very least set yourself up to screen. This makes work more cutthroat so more people hang around all day doing nothing hoping that looking busy will be mistaken for being productive which makes them miserable.
12k that probably comes with the requirement for a follow on sea tour? After The Man takes his piece that's not a lot of scratch. Maybe take the wife and kids to Disney with it or buy your teenager a clunker. Or you could take some other O-5 job and still get the same retirement.