Future of Manned Aircraft

[Hotdogs]

I've worked with Swanee - he's legit. Can we get over the dick measuring contest and get back to sharing a conversation all of us should learn more about?

I'm sure that very well maybe true, but the flippant and condesending attitude that seemingly always screams "I'm the UAV guy, and you guys don't know what you're talking about, because I'm the only UAV guy here" falls on deaf ears based solely on the fact that Swan's operational experience at this point is basically nil. An F/A-18 FRS attrite (no one holds that against him either) plus going through the truncated UAV pipeline leaves little time to actually learn and integrate with the rest of the MAGTF. There's nothing wrong with that, because that's just how the cards fall sometimes. However, the know-it-all attitude is annoying, and any young boot in a gun squadron would get their bags smashed for indicating otherwise. I think that's what Treetop Flyer is getting at.

 

[squorch2]

The Machines Are Coming

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/opinion/sunday/the-machines-are-coming.html?_r=0

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Camel jockeys have already been assimilated. Resistance is futile.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/photos-robot-jockeys-race-camels-in-dubai-1429220724?mod=e2fb

 

[robav8r]

The Machines Are Coming

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/opinion/sunday/the-machines-are-coming.html?_r=0

Amazing article . . . makes one wonder how far robots/AI/technology will take over jobs & tasks currently being done by humans.

 

[pilot_man]

Show of hands- who actually has actual no shit experience with both manned and unmanned TACAIR platforms? (I do) Most of you talk a mean game but only have experience from one side. Saying you've worked with UAVs and therefore know what they can and can't do is like a Harrier dude saying they know what Skids can do because they worked with them.

It's a new platform and new technology- you don't understand it, and quite frankly you can't. You're too busy learning your own platform. Some skill sets are transferable, many are not. Don't pretend to be an expert on a topic/platform you aren't.

Dude, I wouldn't let a nugget in the fleet talk about their "no shit experience" the way you are, and they may actually take the Hornet into combat. Maybe slow your all knowing roll a little bit.

 

[Flash]

I think the SECNAV is a bit too optimistic...UAS has its place, and they're not going away. But they've never been employed in a peer-competitor scenario, against an opponent with his ECM shit in one sock. Never mind the issues with ROE and weapons-release authority...

As exciting as UAV's and the latest and greatest technology for them may be the really big thing I think many of the most ardent advocates seem to either ignore or discount is how much some of our more technologically advanced adversaries are working to counter some of those advances. We have never faced a serious EA threat since it came into it's own discipline more than 50 years ago and UAV's would be one of the most vulnerable types of gear to that sort of warfare. It also assumes that much of the technology will work as advertised, dealing with a lot of technologically advanced things at my current work has taught me that rarely does the practice match the promises. That isn't even starting to take into account the politics and PR of it as Fester points out, that alone could render moot many technological advances.

UAV's are a very useful tool that will be of great benefit to us and our adversaries but there are limits, both practical and political, that will likely ensure manned aircraft have a place in the military long after anyone here has retired.

 

[Uncle Fester]

UAV's are a very useful tool that will be of great benefit to us and our adversaries but there are limits, both practical and political, that will likely ensure manned aircraft have a place in the military long after anyone here has retired.

Concur. Thanks for saying what I was trying to say, more succinctly.

The political aspects of UAS employment will limit what they can do, no matter what becomes practically possible. I've flown both manned and unmanned as a Fleet guy and there are some things you just can't practically do with UAS, in the sense of even if it becomes possible to do it unmanned, it's more expensive and difficult and arguably riskier, so what's the point?

Robots doing ISR and trash hauling - we're already there and those are good missions for UAS. I could see a robo-COD someday using the technology they're developing with X-47, but hauling trash only, not meatbags.
Strike - we're on our way to that, but it will never be done autonomously. At least not by us.
EA/jamming - maybe. Let a robot hang out over the battlefield, haul the jammers and and take shots at any emitters that come up.

 

[IKE]

Amazing article . . . makes one wonder how far robots/AI/technology will take over jobs & tasks currently being done by humans.

 

[Randy Daytona]

Wonder if this will change the perspectives on UAV's.

From Foreign Policy, "It’s just one part of a sophisticated Russian electronic warfare (EW) effort in Ukraine that has proved a sobering experience for the U.S. Army. Faced with how the newly modernized Russian army is operating in Ukraine and Syria — using equipment like the Krasukha-4, which jams radar and aircraft —American military officials are being forced to admit they’re scrambling to catch up. Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges, commander of U.S. Army units in Europe, has described Russian EW capabilities in Ukraine as “eye-watering.”

https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/10/2...tm_campaign=New Campaign&utm_term=Flashpoints

 

[Brett327]

"American military officials are being forced to admit they’re scrambling to catch up. Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges, commander of U.S. Army units in Europe"

Yeah, speak for your own service, General. Your eyes are only watering because you have no idea of our own capabilities. The Army made a conscious decision at the end of the Cold War to divest itself from EW and the VAQ community had to pick up their slack during OEF/OIF by setting up their entire CREW program and staffing it with hundreds of Navy IAs.

You know who's not scrambling to catch up? The service that has invested heavily in AEA since the 1970s.

 

[picklesuit]

Wonder if this will change the perspectives on UAV's.

From Foreign Policy, "It’s just one part of a sophisticated Russian electronic warfare (EW) effort in Ukraine that has proved a sobering experience for the U.S. Army. Faced with how the newly modernized Russian army is operating in Ukraine and Syria — using equipment like the Krasukha-4, which jams radar and aircraft —American military officials are being forced to admit they’re scrambling to catch up. Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges, commander of U.S. Army units in Europe, has described Russian EW capabilities in Ukraine as “eye-watering.”

https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/10/21/russia-winning-the-electronic-war/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=New Campaign&utm_term=Flashpoints

So, basically, we are getting batting practice against the other team without getting shot at by them.

Guessing the Russkies aren't bringing their starting pitcher to this game.

The prior SS-3 in me is drooling at the prospect of all the collecting I could do there...

 

[Brett327]

Don't worry, our National Assets are all over that.

 

[picklesuit]

I've kicked so many penguins off the small iceberg, pretty sure I couldn't tell you the difference between PRF, SR, and PRI anymore...