DIA, as we used say, is the "D" team. If you want to join the "A" team, find your way to the agency.
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First choice for a new 1835 - OPINTEL or HUMINT?
- Thread starter RedGriffin
- Start date
Not just can but you should. You and whoever you're talking to on the other end of the line will quickly get a feel if you'll fit in well there- things like drill schedule flexibility, expectations of getting work done outside of drill weekend, ADT funding, or the lack thereof of any of these things, just to name a few.
It's very different from negotiation PCS orders when you're a JO on active duty.
Folks, if you want to know what units are out there, go to myNRH (CAC Enabled; email cert). At the top, there is a tab titled, COMMANDS. Click on that, and a drop down will appear. Next, hover on CNIFR and another menu will expand showing the NIFR region. Next, hover on a region and every unit attached to that region will show up. If you then click on a unit, it will take you to their Sharepoint page where you will find the leadership and unclassified mission statements, and in some cases the org chart for that unit.
As mentioned, for the NSW INTEL units (SEAL TEAM 17 and 18 N2), ONI KIWC, a couple of the NCIS units, and a couple of the DIA units, there are a lot of people submitting JOAPPLY requests to get into these units.
A couple of these units do defense strategic debriefing, others law enforcement related stuff. But you are not going to go through a round of HUMINT related training (ASOC, SOC, DATC) because the courses are longer than a two week AT and getting ADT funding for a Reservist to attend these courses just doesn't happen in my observations. At least it didnt when I was an 1835. The best you will get is maybe getting orders to DSDC, but that is even a stretch given the 5-week course length.
As with most Reservists, the ROI just is not there. That is, showing up a weekend a month does not justify spending dollars and jumping through hoops to get a seat for a Reserve body. Now then, if you are on long-term orders somewhere, then you could justify it. This is from the Navy perspective because the Navy does not give a crap about HUMINT.
Air Force and Army have it much, much easier in this regard as their folks can specialize in this area for their entire careers.
As mentioned, for the NSW INTEL units (SEAL TEAM 17 and 18 N2), ONI KIWC, a couple of the NCIS units, and a couple of the DIA units, there are a lot of people submitting JOAPPLY requests to get into these units.
A couple of these units do defense strategic debriefing, others law enforcement related stuff. But you are not going to go through a round of HUMINT related training (ASOC, SOC, DATC) because the courses are longer than a two week AT and getting ADT funding for a Reservist to attend these courses just doesn't happen in my observations. At least it didnt when I was an 1835. The best you will get is maybe getting orders to DSDC, but that is even a stretch given the 5-week course length.
As with most Reservists, the ROI just is not there. That is, showing up a weekend a month does not justify spending dollars and jumping through hoops to get a seat for a Reserve body. Now then, if you are on long-term orders somewhere, then you could justify it. This is from the Navy perspective because the Navy does not give a crap about HUMINT.
Air Force and Army have it much, much easier in this regard as their folks can specialize in this area for their entire careers.
One might be able to find some MOB opportunities to work in HUMINT which would involve getting some schools with the work up for the MOB.
These used to be easier to find with IA MOBS years ago, but it appears to me that we see fewer and fewer of these MOB opportunities now.
I'm a reservist - it's a part time gig. I do it because I love it and I go after what I want with it. I avoid what I don't like unless I have no choice. For example - I hate imagery. I suspect I could get good at it but I hate it and I avoid it.
What I do in the reserve has nothing to do with any work I do full time on the civilian side. So I'm not looking for my reserve work to open up a new career for me. That being said, I'm not closed to new fields either. I've often enjoyed my work as a Navy Reservist more than I have my civilian career and have considered making a change to doing stuff I've liked doing through my reserve work on a full time basis. I guess you never know.
My civilian career and reserve career are just chapters in a book that isn't finished yet. One chapter has a bit more substance to it. The other is a bit shorter but more fun to read so far.
But I've never approached my reserve part time gig as a full time job. I've never stressed over the best course for a career in the reserve. I've just done what I've liked to do with it. And it turns out - there's a very good chance that I'll probably end up putting in 20 plus. They will have to tell me to leave, because I've liked doing it and I don't want to stop doing it.
I'll be honest - I'd have rather been a combat arms type - but life, marriage, kids, jobs, - Navy Reserve worked out better than trying to be a full time tanker, pilot, or infantryman. It's a choice I made.
After joining, I had some buyer's remorse with the Navy Reserve because I wasn't doing all the stuff I wanted to in my imagination - but by doing what wanted when opportunities opened up within the Intel side that appealed to me - I not only liked it - but I got to do a lot more of what I would have imagined I wished I could do when I joined.
This is probably why I like the reserve. I got to do what I wanted to do. I did more of what I joined to do and less of what I didn't want to do.
If like me, you just want to do what you want to do with the reserve than go after the opportunities that appeal to you. If HUMINT floats your boat then go for it. If you hate imagery or OPINTEL - avoid it and do something you like.
Everyone posting has great points - so I'd listen. I might not get past O-4 when that time comes. I bet many posters will.
Then again, I just might make it further and I expect to too. But I'm not mapping my part time job to get ahead so much. I can't say I don't do it at all - but I do it because I like it. I don't pick a direction based on what an advancement board might think if I ever get a look at O-5 many years down the road.
I think many people that approach the reserve in the way I'm describing find it supplements their lives and these types of reservists tend to enjoy the experience.
If you are really only interested in what the Big Navy thinks it needs or wants - that's cool. I hope for you that what big Navy Wants is what you want to do. If it is, you will be happy. If not, you might learn to love it or you could find yourself miserable in the reserve.
My two cents is if you see a small section in the Navy Reserve that appeals to you go for it and be happy. Big Navy will figure what makes them happy.
But I would agree with the others posting - if you want to be a full time high speed secret agent - CIA is probably where to go. If you see this as a part time gig and want to spice things up with a little excitement and be a Jr. Varsity type in that racy world one weekend a month, AT, and a mob here and there - you might just find what you looking for being a reservist.
Good luck! Hope you dig what you end up doing, whatever that is.
But, but, I thought when I signed up I would be living out my James Bond fantasies!
Why not? I was going to cross assign to a more local unit anyway, so JOAPPLY was more for admin purposes. I had good phone conversations with several of them to see which would be a good fit for my situation.
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devilbones
Arashikage トーマス・嵐影
I would do what you want to do. At the end of the day you are the one that is going to have to deal with it. Others are telling you that Navy HUMINT isn't good but it will be what you make of it. I am not sure where you are at geographically but if I were you I would do what was best for me and what I wanted to do.
Where many 1835's mess up is in focusing on doing cool stuff (homesteading in cool units, going on orders doing cool stuff all the time) and not on doing Naval Officer stuff (ADMINO, OPSO, TRAINO, etc.). Some also mess up thinking that volunteering to mobilize once or twice will fix things.
Making O4 as an 1835 is tough these days and is only getting tougher.
I think this is a matter of perspective. Messing up and success are perceptions. Job satisfaction is what I'm looking at here. So doing what you like doing can be a very big part of it.
I have seen what you are talking about too with people being mad they didn't promote after 15 years or whatever and having never helped the unit in any way. I've frankly only met one person 1835 reservist that missed O-4 that wanted it. She was separated too. Beyond that, people didn't get it because they planned on getting out or were unwilling or "unable - life stuff" to put in enough time to have some bullets and people to support them. O-5 is a different story - it does get gamey the higher we go.
That being said, we drive our reserve careers to a great extent so we may as well get what we want out of it. If someone wants to do cool stuff, gets to do cool stuff, and doesn't make CO - which does not have to be the case by the way - then we have a happy reservist that got to do what they wanted. That's a good thing and the opposite of a mistake in my book.
I would not call that messing up. Some might and that if fine. There's plenty of time along the way on drill weekends to fill ADMINO, OPSO, TRAINO... I think one can do the cool stuff and check the not so cool collateral stuff along the way too and promote just fine.
While ADMINO might eat up most of your time even as a collateral in a reserve unit - you can still be involved in HUMINT or OPINTEL unit when doing you actual production.
Remember - one can homestead as ADMINO, OPSO, TRAINO too - and be penalized for not doing any cool stuff...
In my mind - the distinctions aren't so clear cut. Many successful people do what they want and pull plenty of weight doing the not so cool stuff along the way too.
bluemarlin04
Well-Known Member
Well, no. It’s not going to be. Cause you won’t have the charters required.
That’s like telling a pilot “this squadron will be what you make it” when said squadron has no aircraft.
bluemarlin04
Well-Known Member
This. Except the Navy is playing tee ball not high school ball.
Also for the love of god OP. If you go to HUMINT don’t be one of those guys who went to DSDC at Huachuca and then goes around telling everyone they’re a HUMINT guy. If you’re not a CAT 1 (there are very few in the Navy), you’re not a HUMINTer.
devilbones
Arashikage トーマス・嵐影
So you are familiar with all of the HUMINT opportunities in the USNR for officers?
devilbones
Arashikage トーマス・嵐影
Oh wow. I am curious what experience you have to make this distinction? How is being a strategic debriefer not HUMINT?
With the point you make - I agree with you to an extent Marlin. I have a little caveat. Remember you look at this as someone on active duty comparing A list gigs to reserve gigs. Many people in the reserve are pumped to be part of this at other levels. And even Pilots in squadrons that have no aircraft in the reserve are still closer to billets when the open up than the people that aren't billeted as pilots in the reserve.
In my experience and you might find this too with the reserve - we really aren't doing that much on drill weekends, we do a little on AT, but we stand by the ready and deliver with MOBS. That's really what the reserve force does. We are bored most of time, but we are a force multiplier and sometimes used to to supplement the active duty side, not just multiply.
We aren't looking at A Team gigs - or at least we shouldn't be for the most part. There are few exceptions for a few communities in the reserve that can spin up pretty quickly or stay ready to mob for some high speed stuff.
No one or at least very few, have the tools at hand to do high speed stuff on drill weekends in the reserve. But your Unit (or mother ship as I jokingly call it sometime) does have the inside track on getting to do the good stuff that's out there for part timers and that track is somewhat guided by what that unit does.
So if someone wants to do high speed or teaball humint - best place to get the chance will be in a unit that does HUMINT. It isn't the only place to do it but you will see the MOB, AT, ADT billets pop up more when assigned to those Units.
And no - it will not be CIA stuff but the OP is not necessarily talking about being a CIA agent either. He's only expressing an interest in what's out there in the reserve. Just wants to see what he might like doing. If the OP likes HUMINT and values the chance to do that over checking boxes that he can check anywhere like ADMINO, then even D list HUMINT might be better and more fun for them than OPINTEL if they hate OPTINTEL.
Junior league part time stuff might be right up his alley. I know at least one Navy Reserve guy that did the school at Huachuca - got out as an interrogator - and ended up obtaining actionable intel that directly led to the capture/demise of at least one high value target. Dude was an E-6 at the time time too, so that's really saying something about the caliber of this person. High speed dude to begin with.
No it wasn't James Bond stuff. But it's pretty bad ass! Dude even got to grow a beard, talk with local nationals, and wear civilian clothes while carrying a gun overseas.
That being said - I know several guys that did the school at Huachuca too and then never got past GITMO. They never got to do any high speed HUMINT stuff. Even the guy that I mentioned above did one rotation at GITMO.
So while I agree the Navy isn't the best place to be doing CIA James Bond stuff - it's not a bad place to dabble in HUMINT if you are a reservist already and that's something that interests you on the part time side of things. Even then - it may not be the best place but it can be done and if you are already in and seeing what's out there - hey when opportunity knocks... Do what you like.
There were probably 5-6 guys that wanted to do what the one guy that got the chance to shine that I mentioned did. But that is the case with most things - HUMINT, OPINTEL (competition and luck).
But for new Reservists - if you want to try to do something and don't even try and then hate what you end up doing anyway - you will really hate the reserve because you will very likely end up doing stuff you hate. But if you push a bit you might get to do some of what you want and you might end up liking it too.
I say don't be the one that doesn't try doing some of what you like.