Crossing the finish line... running, walking or crawling... (Reserve Retirement Process)

[bubblehead]

ADSW is always a solid escape plan if things get really bad.

If you can find someone local to support or to support via telecommuting (COVID), you could always do a several weeks worth of non-pay additional drills supporting whomever you want. They get free labor and you get away from the office. And, your SELRES unit could care less because you are still drilling with them during the DWE

While you would be working for free, you would be racking up 2 points per day doing this, or 10 points per Monday - Friday. If you did this for a couple of months, you would rack up about 80 points.

 

[Hair Warrior]

If you did this for a couple of months, you would rack up about 80 points.

Question: Are you allowed to create Nonpay IDTs for yourself if you are in the IRR? If so, why don’t more people in the IRR do this, if they are trying to finish 20 good years? And, would you have to find a command willing to take you onboard for 5 weeks (50 points) of Nonpays each anniversary year?

 

[bubblehead]

Question: Are you allowed to create Nonpay IDTs for yourself if you are in the IRR? If so, why don’t more people in the IRR do this, if they are trying to finish 20 good years? And, would you have to find a command willing to take you onboard for 5 weeks (50 points) of Nonpays each anniversary year?

You submit rescheduled drills, and additional drill period requests in NSIPS.

You have a good year and a qualifying year. Read the attached. Why do more people not do it? Laziness and an unwillingness to ask. I've been doing non-pat additional drills for years.

Re work. yes you would have to find a command that is ok to "employ" you for the time you want to spend there. I would wager to guess that if you are local and told the command, "hey, I can come here on unpaid orders for 2 months", that they would slurp it up.

 

[Jim123]

Why do more people not do it? Laziness and an unwillingness to ask. I've been doing non-pat additional drills for years.

If you're doing unit admin work (perfect example is fitreps and evals) and there aren't enough RMPs to go around (there never are), there's no reason not to at least get retirement points for your efforts.

 

[vxc961]

Hair warrior,

I could be mistaken, but if you are in the VTU (which is part of the IRR) than Bubblehead’s advice holds. If you are in the Active Status Pool (which is what most people think of as “the IRR” but could pedantically be called IRR/ASP), then I don’t believe you can drill at all. you may be able to find some orders, but that’s 1pt/day stuff and could prob deserve its own thread.

So if you’re IRR/VTU, you still your butt off, and nobody will probably care too much since you’re not getting paid.

If you’re IRR/ASP, you won’t have a CAC card or any access, your dental or whatever will be out of date (GASP), the NOSC will have no way of knowing you’ve done PARFQ...you get the point. If you’re IRR/ASP they may as well call it IRR/S.O.L. I’ve also never heard of anyone in the IRR/ASP successfully getting ADSW orders, even when he has a pretty desired skill like JTAC.

This is the second time I’ve kinda been one of those “well actually guys” on this thread. Sorry. I promise, we’re not so different, you and I.

 

[Jim123]

This is the second time I’ve kinda been one of those “well actually guys” on this thread. Sorry. I promise, we’re not so different, you and I.

Nothing wrong with that, keep spreading the knowledge! These are the kinds of ins and outs that many reservists don't find out about for years or until after it would have been good to know.

As miserable as it sounds to talk about all the different ways to drill for no pay but points only (and/or unpaid orders), that can be a bridge for some people who want flexibility to be able to focus on their real jobs or life/family/other, chalk up a qualifying year towards retirement, and still be able to easily step back into the game on their own terms.

Being able to keep a CAC card is a really big deal.

Good gouge and qualified retirements for all my friends!

 

[atmahan]

VXC961 is right once again.

Racking up extra points by offering free work is only available for SELRES and IRR/VTU. When you are IRR/ASP your Command is not the local NOSC so they can’t authorize points for you.

For those who are IRR/ASP and want more points via free work then they must transfer to IRR/VTU. However, from what I have seen, how easy/hard it is to go from IRR/ASP TO IRR/VTU depends on the Navy’s current needs and goals. Towards my last few years of my 20 Qualifying Years (~2015-18) there was a push in the Navy to minimize guys like me/us from getting their 20 without being a SELRES (that is getting 20 years just through IRR). For a brief period of time I tried going from ASP to VTU but hit a wall of admin pushback and lack of motivation from the SELRES Recruiter to assist me. The requirements were that I had to get a Dental/Medical and submit a package via the NOSC. I guess I could’ve done it all myself (the good ol’ hand carry your own package through all the hoops) but eventually I found a way to get my 20 years in the IRR and abandoned going VTU. Today, who knows?

As has been mentioned many times before, one can be IRR and rack up points (non pay) doing correspondence course, funeral honors, Navy Blue/Gold, etc. VTU is the way to go if you want to work at a traditional SELRES command for free.

To recap on the SELRES side: if you are SELRES you are “highly recommended” to perform your 12 DWEs and AT, which adds up to 60 points, which when added to your 15 participation points, adds up to 75 points for the year, which is well above the required 50 points to get a Qualifying Year.

The term Satisfactory Year means you did all your DWEs and AT as a minimum (it shows that you are supporting the Reserves as intended). You even get a ribbon for it (isn’t that nice? ?).

Again, on the SELRES side, if you want even more points above Drill Weekends (DWE) you can do: Additional Training Periods (ATPs), Readiness Management Periods (RMPs), both only if available and usually up to a prescribed limit per per person per year. Plus you can also do the stuff that IRR people can do (please see above). These will all add points to your Inactive Points (up to 130 per year).

You can also add to your Active Duty points via a second AT, ADSWs, and MOBs. The max Active Duty points you can rack up are 365 minus how many Inactive Points you’ve racked up so far.

 

[Jim123]

Some more food for thought about what those retirement points actually mean, other than getting enough each year for a qualifying year.

I did the math a while ago and for a rough rule of thumb: for every four~ish points you get, your monthly retirement check will be one dollar more. This is if you retire as an O4 with 20 years under the old retirement system. If your paygrade or years are different then that number will be different too.

It's just one more way of looking at it.

 

[nittany03]

I guess I could’ve done it all myself (the good ol’ hand carry your own package through all the hoops) but eventually I found a way to get my 20 years in the IRR and abandoned going VTU. Today, who knows?

As has been mentioned many times before, one can be IRR and rack up points (non pay) doing correspondence course, funeral honors, Navy Blue/Gold, etc. VTU is the way to go if you want to work at a traditional SELRES command for free.

If this is not already gone, it's going away. No one should plan on being able to retire out of the ASP anymore. It's either SELRES, VTU, or TYFYS and have a nice life.

To recap on the SELRES side: if you are SELRES you are “highly recommended” to perform your 12 DWEs and AT, which adds up to 60 points, which when added to your 15 participation points, adds up to 75 points for the year, which is well above the required 50 points to get a Qualifying Year.

You're not "highly recommended." You're required. If you don't either complete 40 of 48 drill periods or get them excused, and don't either do AT or get a waiver, you can be processed for ADSEP.

The term Satisfactory Year means you did all your DWEs and AT as a minimum (it shows that you are supporting the Reserves as intended). You even get a ribbon for it (isn’t that nice? ?).

No, you don't. You do get the AFRM with an hourglass for every 10 years and a numbered "M" device for every different set of authorities you MOB under.

Again, on the SELRES side, if you want even more points above Drill Weekends (DWE) you can do: Additional Training Periods (ATPs), Readiness Management Periods (RMPs), both only if available and usually up to a prescribed limit per per person per year. Plus you can also do the stuff that IRR people can do (please see above). These will all add points to your Inactive Points (up to 130 per year).

There is no "prescribed limit" other than the max inactive points. You can get as many paid extra drills as the OSO will give your command, and as many unpaid drills as you can justify with work. And you SHOULD be getting pay or points for off-DWE reserve work anyway, because the act of asking for them is sending a demand signal to CNRFC telling them just how much work it takes to run the reserves. Otherwise, you're basically screwing yourself, and BSing CNR into thinking his people don't need funds.

You can also add to your Active Duty points via a second AT, ADSWs, and MOBs. The max Active Duty points you can rack up are 365 minus how many Inactive Points you’ve racked up so far.

Pedantic note . . . there is no "second AT." There is E-AT, which is AT over 14 days. There is ADT, which is Additional Training, and a different pot of money. Also, ADSW is now ADOS, FWIW.

 

[atmahan]

Look I was relating what I have learned from being an OIC of an NRF Reserve Unit and actually having read the Instructions and Manuals.

Since I am being forced back into those books, here goes:

1)

You will still be able to retire out of the IRR-ASP, but you will only be allowed to do so if you already have 16 Qualifying Years from a combination of Active Duty/ SELRES/IRR-VTU.

Per MILPERSMAN 1001-125, CH-69, 9 Oct 2019, Requirements for Transfer from Selected Reserve or Individual Ready Reserve-Voluntary Training Unit to the Individual Ready Reserve-Active Status Pool, Standby Reserve-Active, or Standby Reserve-Inactive:

b. Upon completion of initial 8-year MSO (officer or enlisted) or current contract (enlisted), the Service member will no longer be eligible to remain in the IRR-ASP, with the exception of members who have obtained 16 qualifying years for retirement as of 30 September 2017. Members who desire continued service may request affiliation with SELRES or IRR VTU.

After 16 Qualifying Years one will still be able to transfer to the IRR and use the methods described in this forum to earn their 20 Years for Retirement in the IRR.

2)
OK, maybe "highly encouraged" was wrong (I admit it, but that is term we are more familiar with and I was going off the top of my head). The correct term is "expected":

Per MILPERSMAN 1001-150, CH-66, 2 Feb 2019, Navy Reserve Participation Requirements:

2. Criteria for Satisfactory Participation in the Drilling Reserve (SELRES or VTU). Unit commanding officers (CO) and Navy Reserve activities (NRA) are responsible for monitoring the participation of their assigned Service members. Criteria for satisfactory participation in the drilling Reserve are as follows:

a. Service members are expected to satisfactorily complete 40 of 48 inactive duty training (IDT) periods each fiscal year.

b. Service members will be designated as unsatisfactory participants when 9 or more IDT periods in a running 12-month period are declared unsatisfactory or are unexcused absences.

c. Service members must perform a minimum of 12-14 days annual training (AT), equivalent active duty training (ADT), or active duty (AD) for operation

You can do less than 12 DWEs, as long as they are Authorized Absences and not Unauthorized Absences (9 UAs max) or Unsatisfactory DWEs (unsat performance by the Reservist during the DWE). As for ATs, you can get a waiver for that year (max 2 waivers for 2 consecutive years).

And I said this in my post but it was conveniently ignored.

3)

OK, again, I was wrong. The Naval Reserve Meritorious Service Ribbon was discontinued in 2014, but it has now been merged with the Good Navy Conduct Medal, but the criteria remains:

Per the Navy and Marine Corps Awards Manual, Tab 27:

(b) Drilling Reserve members must maintain eligibility for a satisfactory year towards retirement, as outlined in BUPERSINST 1001.39 (Series), for three consecutive years.

And having Authorized Absences and waived ATs DO NOT count towards this award, hence my statement that you get a "ribbon" (sorry I was going of the top of my head again, its actually a medal), to ENCOURAGE Reservists to not do Authorized Absences and Waivers but instead do the 12 DWEs and AT.

And yes, the Armed Forces Reserve Medal (Tab 4) is given for 10 Years within a 12 Year period.


As for ATPs and RMPs, Units are allowed so many ATPs per year per person. In my case it was 30 ATPs per year per Reservist and 30 RMPs per Officers and Chiefs per year.

As for second-ATs, when the money is tight (which is and has been the case since 2003) one was expected to do their AT (at their Operational Command). However, in the 4th Quarter of the fiscal year (July-September), if there was still money in the AT pot, then they would open 2nd ATs, which means that, if you have already completed your AT sometime in the 1st 3 Quarters of the fiscal year, you can apply for a 2nd AT (and not necessarily at your Operational Command). It is not an E-AT, it is a 2nd AT, in fact that is what they call it when they announced that they are now available.

I can go on but I'm Retired and all this Admin stuff sucks!

 

[MIDNJAC]

On another note, I heard today that folks who are separating will no longer be allowed to promote to LCDR if they don't commit to additional 2 year orders post promotion. Has this always been a thing that just wasn't enforced, or has there been some policy change? Interesting play.

 

[subreservist]

On another note, I heard today that folks who are separating will no longer be allowed to promote to LCDR if they don't commit to additional 2 year orders post promotion. Has this always been a thing that just wasn't enforced, or has there been some policy change? Interesting play.

Haven't heard, but if one is completely separating, why would they care about promoting and why waste a promotion on a separating member?

If the person comes back, they can play in the pool when they return.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Thanks @vxc961 and others for the gouge. I’m SELRES so not too worried at the moment. The plan is to see if I make O4 and make a call around the 10 year mark whether I want to do 10 more.

@atmahan re: Awards. Does the Reserve Good Conduct Medal get awarded to O’s and E’s, or just E’s? I have not heard of it being awarded to O’s but my unit hasn’t really put out much gouge on awards.

 

[atmahan]

Hair Warrior,

The Navy Good Conduct Medal (and the old Navy Reserve Meritorious Medal) is/was for Enlisted only.

The latest authority for the Navy Good Conduct Medal is ALNAV 025/14, as stated in the Navy and Marine Corps Awards Manual, Tab 27. The ALNAV message states:

2. Navy Good Conduct Medal

a. Authorization. The NGCM was established by SECNAV on 26 April 1869
to recognize the "all-around" good Navy enlisted person, well qualified in
all phases of conduct and performance. Effective
1 February 1971, commanding officers were delegated authority to award the
NGCM. Effective 1 January 2014, Navy Reserve personnel who meet the Reserve
eligibility requirements are authorized the NGCM. The CNO has review
authority over the NGCM and designates specific criteria for the award.

 

[SlickAg]

On another note, I heard today that folks who are separating will no longer be allowed to promote to LCDR if they don't commit to additional 2 year orders post promotion. Has this always been a thing that just wasn't enforced, or has there been some policy change? Interesting play.

Commit to two more years of active duty after pinning on O-4?

Or agreeing to go SELRES?

This sounds a lot like the Marine Corps’ continuation nonsense from a few years ago; them not paying out the involuntary sep pay for a 2xFOS unless they agreed to two years of continuation. And by “sounds a lot like” I mean probably not legal.