So I am about to head into Safe for Solo but I am having a hell of a time with cross wind landings, finally got my flare picture straightened out on "normal" landings, but my cross wind corrections are killing me....I seem to be always off of center-line...anybody have this problem before and know of any "techniques" to help me get those damn landings on the center-line....thanks for the input....
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Cross Wind Landings
- Thread starter NOSWO
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Well, you have the two techniques out there, but only ONE of them will be used in the T34. You can maintain centerline with a crab input, and take it out at the last minute, this is NOT trained in Primary, so throw that out the window.
Your IP has been teaching you to keep that wing down into the wind, and using top rudder, hence "wing down, top rudder!", don't know how many times that has been yelled at me. And dang it, it works, still use it in the P3 in some pretty crazy crosswinds out here, and maintain that centerline. Pay attention to those winds, ask for a wind check if in doubt, or can't make out the wind sock. I know that inputs feel uncomfortable, at least they did to me the first couple times I did them, but now, they are just second nature. What you are learning now is up prime importance, striving for and maintaining that centerline. I can't speak for jets, but throughout Prop training, you are not allowed to get away with being off centerline due to the safety hazards it causes, plus just plain sloppy airwork.
When I flew my solo, I tended to fly a tad bit deeper on my pattern, just to ensure that I wasn't wrapping it up tightly at the last minute. So if I misjudged my winds (overshooting or undershooting), I would have adequate spacing to adjust back to centerline on final. Even entering patterns now for bounce work in the P3, especially when flying a left hand pattern from the right seat, where I CAN'T see the runway till past the 90, I opt for a little bit deeper and wider pattern. You note the AOB and power settings that worked for you, and improve on the next pass.
I don't know if you are in Corpus or Pcola, I found Corpus MUCH more challenging with the winds when I went through Advanced Props down there, and it was a blast to fight them, and get the self confidence. Just work on what your IPs have been teaching you, get that wing down to offset the crosswind drift trying to push you off centerline, and use that top rudder to get your nose pointed down the runway, and ride it on in.
Of PRIME importance in any pattern work is staying on the numbers, hit your 180 at 1000' on speed, set the required power, do your landing checks, and get that descent rate and AOB in, and in turn hit your 90 at 660 (2/3rds pattern alt) and then final at the 200-300 feet window. If you are off on those windows, you are just making it more difficult on yourself to correct back, especially with rough winds.
Best of luck.
Your IP has been teaching you to keep that wing down into the wind, and using top rudder, hence "wing down, top rudder!", don't know how many times that has been yelled at me. And dang it, it works, still use it in the P3 in some pretty crazy crosswinds out here, and maintain that centerline. Pay attention to those winds, ask for a wind check if in doubt, or can't make out the wind sock. I know that inputs feel uncomfortable, at least they did to me the first couple times I did them, but now, they are just second nature. What you are learning now is up prime importance, striving for and maintaining that centerline. I can't speak for jets, but throughout Prop training, you are not allowed to get away with being off centerline due to the safety hazards it causes, plus just plain sloppy airwork.
When I flew my solo, I tended to fly a tad bit deeper on my pattern, just to ensure that I wasn't wrapping it up tightly at the last minute. So if I misjudged my winds (overshooting or undershooting), I would have adequate spacing to adjust back to centerline on final. Even entering patterns now for bounce work in the P3, especially when flying a left hand pattern from the right seat, where I CAN'T see the runway till past the 90, I opt for a little bit deeper and wider pattern. You note the AOB and power settings that worked for you, and improve on the next pass.
I don't know if you are in Corpus or Pcola, I found Corpus MUCH more challenging with the winds when I went through Advanced Props down there, and it was a blast to fight them, and get the self confidence. Just work on what your IPs have been teaching you, get that wing down to offset the crosswind drift trying to push you off centerline, and use that top rudder to get your nose pointed down the runway, and ride it on in.
Of PRIME importance in any pattern work is staying on the numbers, hit your 180 at 1000' on speed, set the required power, do your landing checks, and get that descent rate and AOB in, and in turn hit your 90 at 660 (2/3rds pattern alt) and then final at the 200-300 feet window. If you are off on those windows, you are just making it more difficult on yourself to correct back, especially with rough winds.
Best of luck.
Good stuff John...here's my take on the subject.
AILERON:keeps you tracking on the centerline.
RUDDER:keeps your longitudinal axis going straight down the centerline.
On final make sure your tracking down the centerline. Like John said get a quick windcheck from the tower, and check the windsock. Next, let aircraft crab into the wind, and stay tracking down the centerline using only ailerons. I like to do this to help me see how strong the cross wind is.(The airplane acts like the windsock)
Now, *important to remember* AILERON controls drift(Keep you tracking on the centerline)
RUDDER will get the aircraft's longitudinal axis going straight down the centerline.(Prevents you from side loading the aircraft)
So, your on final...using aileron to track on the centerline. Continue doing this untill your about to cross over the runway threshold. Now you smoothly add the rudder in. How much? That depends how strong the wind is...basically whatever it takes to get the nose going down the centerline. Make sure your looking down to the end of the runway.
Say you have a strong crosswind from the right, the right wing will be low and left rudder will be required to swing the nose over to the centerline. That's how you will touch down, right main first, then hold it untill the other one drops on it's own. Don't forget after touch down to hold your aileron correction into the wind.
Hope this helps...good luck!
AILERON:keeps you tracking on the centerline.
RUDDER:keeps your longitudinal axis going straight down the centerline.
On final make sure your tracking down the centerline. Like John said get a quick windcheck from the tower, and check the windsock. Next, let aircraft crab into the wind, and stay tracking down the centerline using only ailerons. I like to do this to help me see how strong the cross wind is.(The airplane acts like the windsock)
Now, *important to remember* AILERON controls drift(Keep you tracking on the centerline)
RUDDER will get the aircraft's longitudinal axis going straight down the centerline.(Prevents you from side loading the aircraft)
So, your on final...using aileron to track on the centerline. Continue doing this untill your about to cross over the runway threshold. Now you smoothly add the rudder in. How much? That depends how strong the wind is...basically whatever it takes to get the nose going down the centerline. Make sure your looking down to the end of the runway.
Say you have a strong crosswind from the right, the right wing will be low and left rudder will be required to swing the nose over to the centerline. That's how you will touch down, right main first, then hold it untill the other one drops on it's own. Don't forget after touch down to hold your aileron correction into the wind.
Hope this helps...good luck!
Remember to hold the inputs even if it feels uncomfortable. I only have light GA experience but when I started flying I had a problem fighting it, get lined up, bring the wing back up because I was on center line only to drift back off and fight it again. Also, don't be afraid to put alot (full deflection) of aileron in when you land to keep the wing down. Good luck with it and have fun!
No, there is enough rudder throw to provide all the yaw necessary, plus I can have up to a 9 degree bank on landing before I encounter a prop strike (shudder). You have enough fun setting power on four engines (FEs can't touch the power and help you set it after the 180), that trying for unasymetric power settings would be impractical. In strong winds we use approach flaps, vice land flaps for higher approach/landing speeds to maintain better control. Approach flaps are also advised during reported windshear in case you have to execute windshear escape procedures...
At altitude we DO practice flying the plane boost out, with no hydraulics, and to initiate climbs, descents and turns, you use the power levers accordingly.
At altitude we DO practice flying the plane boost out, with no hydraulics, and to initiate climbs, descents and turns, you use the power levers accordingly.
Thanks for all the input, I have been working the wing down top rudder method, have gotten to the point where I can make my upwind main touch first, but I am still a little off centerline...all the time...according to my Onwing its because I flare too much when inputting crosswind corrections and lose sight of my intended point of landing and thus drift...I have been putting in my top rudder way before the Numbers so maybe if I just use aileron for a bit then use top rudder once I cross the numbers it will help (like hennekecfi
had mentioned)...I will try that today if I get the chance to go up...again thanks for all the input...
had mentioned)...I will try that today if I get the chance to go up...again thanks for all the input...
Hey don't knock it....when I was at Whidbey Island Navy Flying Club, daytime use of Taxiway Bravo was used for takeoff and landing. The clearance was either Bravo North or Bravo South. It helped expidite getting in and out of the area during FCLP's or when P3's were in the pattern.
LadyJayUSN
Registered User
Hey, don't feel bad NOSWO. I'm Commercially Rated and I still have problems stickin' the centerline everyonce in awhile. You know, I find myself performing my best landings when I'm not really thinking about it (IE.) not over-controlling the aircraft. I dunno, I'm not an instructor or anything, but every airplane has its sweet spots on landings and maybe you're just trying to hard to find it. Heck, I'm not an expert...keep relying on these other guys for better gouge.
<I SWIM 'CAUSE I'M TOO DAMNED SEXY FOR SPORTS THAT REQUIRE CLOTHING>
<I SWIM 'CAUSE I'M TOO DAMNED SEXY FOR SPORTS THAT REQUIRE CLOTHING>
Practice X-winds hard because the also work in a 737 (although passengers hate the wing down but it can be done). Unfortunately, you spend all that time learning to do a proper xwind landing and then you get jets. You can not do a wing down top rudder in a T-45 because of the continuous Nose Wheel Steering. Can't have a rudder input when you land otherwise the airplane will zip off to the side upon landing. Real pain in the neck. Frumby
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