Coast Guard DCA

[a99collectible]

I am a Marine Pilot considering applying for a DCA to the USCG. I have a few questions for anyone that may be willing to answer.
I've noticed that H-60s and H-3s are only at a few duty stations, and the H-65s are at almost all USCG air stations. In that sense, it seems as though your airframe selection effects your duty station location. As a DCA, do you have any input on what airframe you get, or is it based on needs of the USCG? What airframe do you recommend and why? What are the primary missions of each airframe?
What is the "career path" of a CG pilot? I am a senior Marine Captain, about to get forced out of the cockpit to make me a "well rounded MAGTF officer." Are there staff tours, professional military education, "pay back tours", and those kinds of things in the CG that take aviators out of the cockpit?
Is the competition tough for the DCA program and what makes a candidate competitive?
How fast do promotions go in the USCG? The Marine Corps has a way of making you feel like you really earn your rank, but since I'd be learning an entire new mission in the CG I understand the demotion to O-2, but I do have four kids to feed. I'm assuming you stay an O-2 for two years, but how long do you stay an O-3 before picking up O-4?

 

[sardaddy]

Good questions. However you are a bit off on the make up of aircraft in the Coast Guard.

We don't have H-3s anymore and most air stations have either an H-65 or H-60 complement not both. With some exceptions. We also have a unit that flys the MH-68 (Agusta A109 power).

Yes there are only a few H-60 units (7) but there are only 17 air stations with H-65s so either way the choices are limited. So yes your airframe does decide your duty, but that is the case in any service.

You do get a bit of a choice when entering the CG as to which airframe and duty station but as anywhere the needs of the service can trump that.

In my biased opinion, the H-65 is much better. The community is tight knit, you do have more of a choice for duty stations and the airframe is fun especially with the new engines. The H-60 is getting new avionics and looks to be a better airframe in the future as well.

Missions are about the same except the H-65 crews occassionally deploy on ships and we have the new capitol region mission. Our missions are changing all the time so it is an exciting time to be in the CG.

The only recommendations I can make for duty stations is to choose one you like. They are all great. I know people from every station and I can find somebody who loves each station and I can find someone who hates the same station. It will all depend on you. I would look more toward your likes. I.e. big city vs small town. East coast vs West Coast.

Career paths. That really depends on you. I know pilots who have never done a day in HQ and I know pilots who have made a career out of the cockpit. But for the most part as a DCA, you probably won't see an HQ tour until your third tour minimum and you will have the opportunity go to some good schools that you will have to do a payback tour but not necessarily at HQ.

Yes competition is tough, last board selected 16 out of 25. But as I always tell anyone who listens, you have a 50/50 shot. You either make it or you don't.

To be more competitive, you need to know your instruments, you need to be able to demonstrate good decision making and leadership.

Promotions go about the same as any other service. you will be an O-3 for about 5-6 years.


I think that covered everything. If not keep asking away. and good luck!

 

[a99collectible]

thanks Sardaddy, more questions

Thanks for the response, I appreciate the info. I do have more questions, but they probably require insight into the situation to really answer them. They aren't trully objective answers. I have made a list of pros/cons for getting out of the Marine Corps. The top of my cons list is that I wouldn't be a Marine anymore. That may be a single item but it is loaded and quite weighty. I have put my best effort into the Marine Corps and the Marines that have worked for me or with me. This is where I grew up as a pilot and I have worked hard to earn the trust and respect due a seasoned flight leader and instructor pilot. My family has made many sacrifices during these last several years in the form of deployments, missed births, missed holidays, etc. I am no different than any other Marine pilot out there in todays world, and like most of them, I have a lot of pride in what we've done and a lot of lessons learned to pass on to those behind me. It's very difficult to walk away from that, even into a profession with a mission as honorable as the US Coast Guard. Right now, I'm staring down the barrel of another deployment and a tenuous future as my airframe, the CH-46E, is slowly transitioning to the V-22. I passed on the V-22 a year ago, and will likely pass on it again because it remains unproven on the battle field, despite the positive specs and numbers. The V-22 has impacted my MOS in many ways. It has increased our deployment rate in the Phrog community and it has limited the future leadership opportunities (department heads/ squadron commanders) for the 46 MOS and the V-22 MOS for my peer group. Without the benefit of a crystal ball, I could stay in the Marine Corps and be of no value to them as a CH-46E pilot because we have too many of them and never make LtCol. Or I could be one of the few to get screened and slated for command some day and be a squadron CO of the very last Phrog squadron in Okinawa. My heart is not in the V-22, although if I transitioned I would remain in the cockpit for most of my career (the only positive thing about it). If I make a move in the Mairne Corps now other than the V-22, my obligated service would be an additional two-three years, and they would have a Major eligible for an overseas staff job, probably an unaccompanied tour in Qatar, HOA, Iraq, Afghanistan, you name it, because it's hard to find 46 squadrons for Majors these days. That is the crossroads I am at in a nutshell.
I am curious what a career path in the Coast Guard looks like. I am sure that it's very similar for O-2s and O-3s as the Marine Corps, which is the time to earn MOS credibility, but what's after that? Marine Corps monitors can spell out a picture perfect career path for a Marine Officer, what's that same picture perfect career path that the Coast Guard detailers/monitors recommend?
Do DCAs have less responsibility with the cut in rank? Do DCAs generally get promoted faster based on experience and capability or is it solely based on time in grade as a Coast Guard Officer? How long are your deployments onbaord a cutter and how often do you go? Is it a single plane and what is a typical day on deployment? What is the worst possible deal as a Coast Guard aviator and who gets it? What is the best and who gets that? Would you give up a lot of MOS credibility as a Marine Officer and join the Coast Guard? If so, what would be your motivation to do so?
My motivators are: I would like to spend more time with my children and my wife, and I would like to enjoy all aspects of my work. Are these things possible as a Coast Guard pilot?

 

[sardaddy]

Good questions and some statements that hold true for every DCA whether they are a Marine or not.

I will try to answer your questions then try to get philosophical in reference to your other comments.

Career paths and promotions. DCAs do not get promoted any earlier (or later) than their counterparts from other sources. DCAs also have just as much or just as little responsibility as anyone else of the same rank.

Now for the career path. This is tricky but I will try to provide a few examples. It really doesn't matter on rank at first, O-1s to junior O-3s are mix and match. Most tours are four years with some exceptions which I will get to later. But on your first tour you will be establishing yourself as an aviator. For the most part you will progress quicker in this arena than your counterparts right out of flight school. Meaning you will be an Aircraft commander sooner. So while you are establishing yourself you will be tackling collateral duties. Unlike the other services, you will be the station wide POC for your job. I.e. the base security officer. Granted the stations are not that big but the collaterals you get tend to be bigger than a collateral you would get in a unit. You are the staff.

Second tour is usually pretty much the same except you will be working toward instructor pilot and getting increasingly more visible collaterals. Your reputation will be CG wide by this point good or bad. You could also have been accepted for the Aviation engineering program in which case you will be at an airstation learning the ropes from the Stations Engineering officer.

Third tour is where it tends to get tricky. You can continue to another air station, this time taking on a higher role such as assistant Operations officer, Admin Officer (XO asst), or Comptroller (run the stations money) or assistant engineer if you went that route. These high visibility jobs groom you for the next step. You could also be headed to grad school for a couple of years and then continuing with a payback tour (3 years) usually at headquarters. At some point you will pin on O-4.

After this your tours start getting a bit shorter and you will be looking at O-5 in the near future. About the 4th tour you will be looking at the OPS position or engineer position. Or if you haven't been to headquarters you may want to go there (I don't know why but you might).

Then the next tours are for XO and CO. Then you are working toward commandant. I haven't looked that far ahead so that is all a bit fuzzy.

There is not a picture perfect path in the Coast Guard. That is what I love about it. You create your destiny.


Deployments: No longer than two to three months. Depending on where you are stationed and what airframe you fly, you may never deploy. You also may be stationed where you deploy for about 150 days a year. Not in a row though. That stopped when we stopped the polar operations tours last year.

Deployments are single ship (that is all the cutters can hold) and they are generally a good time. By regulation we are not allowed to have actual collaterals on the ships so we are flying or hanging out. but that does get old after a while but on my last deployment I became an excellent HALO player.

Worse possible deal in the Coast Guard? That depends on who you ask. Generally though it would be the dreaded "overseas" tour. You might get sent to Puerto Rico, Hawaii, or Alaska. Sounds horrible doesn't it. The tours to Puerto Rico and Alaska are shorter by a year or two than a stateside tour and of course your family comes with you. Who gets it is all luck of the draw but there are many chomping at the bit to go to all of those locations.

What is the best? Again depends on who you ask. The British and Canadian military exchange tours are usually high on the list. And thinking back, a lot of DCAs have gotten those assignments.


Now for the philisophical portion of the show mixed with your questions.

Would I give up credibility to join the Coast Guard? Apparently so since I am here. All DCAs had built up credibility in their services but we came to the Coast Guard for reasons known only to us. We sucked up our pride for the first couple of years while we reestablished ourselves and then went on to do great things in this organization.

You want to spend more time with your family, well I can almost guarantee you will have more time with them in the CG than in any other service.

You want to enjoy your work, well only you can make that happen. But in the Coast Guard of course it is possible just like is in the Marine Corps for you.

Good luck

 

[a99collectible]

Thanks again

I appreciate the insight of someone who has been in my shoes, thank you. Do you know any DCAs that were former Marines? The DOSS in my squadron knows one in Elizabeth City and is trying to find a phone number for him. I'd like to talk personally with a former Marine pilot. Prior to my last deployment I was at New Orleans JRB for TRUEX so I went to the airstation there and talked with a former Army pilot, WestPoint grad. He shed some light on it as well. So far, everyone I've talked to over the past two years has nothing but good things to say. I am a tough sell though, always the skeptic, I don't believe anyone trully lives the dream. I am afraid the grass looks greener but with my luck I would end up with the job you mentioned of being deployed 150 days a year. That is better than 250 or 365, but I couldn't take it after this last tour. I think one thing I am afraid of is that right now the Marine Corps owes my family some time off, at least one tour, but the Coast Guard wouldn't owe me anything. That makes me nervous. I know what the next few years in the Marine Corps will most likely be, but the Coast Guard is an unknown entity to me. I have seen the USCG in ports in the Mideast during my deployments, although no aircraft, but again, with my luck I'd be on a cutter off Qatar right after I finish the transition course. I guess I'm a chicken $#!! when it comes to such a dramatic change.
I have some other technical questions as well. My best bet would probably be to email the DCA coordinator because they are regarding some of the policy/quilifiers for DCAs. Just in case you know, or someone else does out there, I'll post them. My EOS falls in October and I noticed on the DCA message that you have to be released from service NLT 30Sep, a FY deal. I don't know how that would effect the timing of my application package. I have four kids, so fiscally speaking, I would like to have a seamless transition from one service to another. I don't know how intricate a process that is, or if it's easier than I think. All I know is that the Marine Corps has a hard time paying a travel claim on time (although true, I say this in jest, I love the Marine Corps, even with its faults), let alone something any more complicated like a seamless transfer to another branch of service. How many boards are there a year? At what point in the process does the interview happen? Can I do most of the package while deployed and then the interview upon return? Do I have to drop my resignation papers before I know if I am accepted by the Coast Guard, or can I drop the papers after acceptance? Do you know a good source I can reference for duty stations, the TMS aircraft they have, the mission they support, etc.etc.? I'd like to educate myself, so I'll know exactly what to pursue. I chose the 46 for its mission and I chose the East Coast for the types of deployments and the reputation of the units. I'd like to get educated about those things for the USCG before I make such a monumental decision. Thanks again. Fly safe. Semper Phrog.

 

[sardaddy]

Well, I really don't know what to tell you at this point. If you feel you need a prior Marines perspective, go for it. But we all left a service at the top of our game, sucked up our pride and took a leap of faith. If you are not sure it is worth it or what we have told you is true or not then there is nothing I can tell you to change your mind. We will keep living the dream and you can keep wondering if it is really that good or not.

Like I said before, You won't be deploying for 150 days at a time. Only weeks at a time. And again, it is the worst it could be. But if that is more than you want to do, then look elsewhere. I know Home Depot is hiring.

As for your other questions, I know many pilots that have made seamless transistions from their service. So it isn't like yours will be the first one.

The amount of boards per year is different based on needs of the CG. Usually about two though.

You won't find mission statements for each station. We all do pretty much the same thing with the exception of HITRON. We do Search and Rescue, Law Enforcement, fisheries patrols, Aids to Navigation support etc.


I understand it is a tough decision, I had to make it as well, but sometimes you just have to say what the heck.

 

[USCGaviator]

I agree with sardaddy's responses and wanted to toss in my 2 cents.

Every so often we bring in a new DCA that has a lot of trouble accepting that he is no longer a Marine (also insert Soldier, Squid, etc.). I'm not talking about the "once a Marine, always a Marine" mindset. I'm talking about guys that have trouble letting go of what WAS and integrating into what IS.

These new DCA's are generally (1) unsuccessful in their CG career, (2) like your Grandmother who always wants to talk about "how it used to be" and how that was better, and (3) an all-around pain in the ass to work with. They normally make it to the end of their obligation and then the system gently spits them out.

I'm not trying to imply that you would fall into this category. You may or may not. However, I think it important to understand that this career move is significant and requires a need for you to adapt to the new culture. Anyone that goes into this questioning their ability and commitment to adapt are headed for failure.

Like Sardaddy, I am a DCA that made the leap from the Army almost 17 years ago. When I made the choice to enter the CG I made the decision with the best data I had available (remember that 17 years ago Al Gore had not yet invented the Internet so gouge forums like this were not available). There were many unknowns for me and the 4 dependants that I was responsible for feeding. I accepted these unknowns and made a commitment to "melding" into my new environment. Was it a good move? You bet...the best career decision I could have made.

Here is a list of USCG Air Stations with RW aircraft:

HH-60
1. Cape Cod, MA
2. Clearwater, FL
3. Elizabeth City, NC
4. ATC Mobile, AL
5. Astoria, OR
6. Kodiak, AK
7. San Diego, CA
8. Sitka, AK

HH-65
1. Atlantic City, NJ
2. Borinquen, PR
3. Miami, FL
4. Savannah, GA
5. Corpus Christi, TX
6. Houston, TX
7. ATC Mobile, AL
8. New Orleans, LA
9. Detroit, MI
10. Traverse City, MI
11. Barbers Point, HI
12. Humboldt Bay, CA
13. Kodiak, AK
14. Los Angelos, CA
15. North Bend, OR
16. Port Angeles, WA
17. San Francisco, CA

Good luck with your decision.

 

[a99collectible]

Thanks for your time in responding and the information you've provided. It's been very helpful for me, and probably others that will look up this thread in the future.
You guys sound like a Marine recruiter and I appreciate it. Some things don't need to be sold, they sell themselves. Every swinging richard I've talked to says that Coast Guard aviation is one of those things. I like the missions and would like to be a part of it, I have no doubts about that, but I also like the assault support mission I currently do. I hope I did not offend you by asking for a former Marine's perspective. I would like to talk with someone who speaks the same language and is familiar with the current climate within the Marine Corps. More than likely, we would share some common experiences within the Marine Corps that are uncharacteristic of the Army or Navy. Even in today's joint world, we are all very distinctly different. We all endure @$$ pain in different ways, (especially my brothers on the Blue team.:icon_tong )

 

[phrogpilot73]

Hate to resurrect a dead thread...

I know that I've probably got a good chance of getting flamed for resurrecting an apparently dead thread, but I've been on this board long enough to have developed a thick skin. Rather than starting a new thread for my questions, I figure I'll throw them out here.

I'm currently on deployment with the USMC (my last one!), and will be EAS'ing on May 15th, 2007. I'm looking to go on terminal leave around April 15th, 2007. I've already contacted the USCG recruiter in Wilmington, and when I return in November/December we're going to start getting to work on my USCG DCA package. Here's my specifics: I'm a CH-46E pilot by trade, with 1321 hours, 207 inst, 357 combat, and 387 goggle. I'm a HAC, Section Lead, Division Lead, Assault Flight Lead, Terrain Flight Instructor, Night Systems Instructor, and Weapons and Tactics Instructor. I have already asked, and will be getting letters from my Battalion CO (LtCol), old Squadron CO (LtCol), and on-wing from flight school (USCG LCdr). I have a current Class I flight physical, and the only bump in the road is the DUI I was arrested for (it was dismissed, so I wasn't convicted) in 2001. I currently have an active TS-SCI clearance. Now time for my questions:

1. Is the DUI arrest a big deal? All my flight quals came AFTER I was arrested, so I definitely haven't looked back and have been successful. Also, it was 5 years ago - and haven't even had a speeding ticket since. (I got my TS-SCI after the DUI arrest as well)

2. If I don't have a DD-214, because I'm not on terminal leave, but I am going to be EAS'ing, do I need a conditional release form? I'm getting out whether the Coast Guard takes me or not. Would a certified true copy of my BIR (which indicates my EAS) suffice?

3. When are the boards generally held?

4. What is the interview process like? I plan on studying my nuts off for it, a mix of the OPNAV 3710, FAR/AIM, Approach Plates, Low Altitude Charts, Sectionals, etc... Essentially treating it like a RI-18 checkride. I'm also coming up with examples from my previous experience that would show my leadership/decision making capabilities, and I'm also prepared for the "Why do you want to join the Coast Guard" question. What else could I do? Any suggestions?

5. How does co-location work? My wife is active duty Navy and has orders to Hawaii. Obviously, I want to be stationed with her, will the detailer take that into consideration?

6. How long after the board convenes do you generally hear the results?

7. How long does the training/transition to the Coast Guard usually take?

8. What about transitions to other platforms? i.e. - say my wife gets orders following Hawaii to Norfolk, how hard is it to transition to the 60 in order to be stationed in Elizabeth City?

9. If I went to USNA, and don't rate G.I. Bill (but have repaid my dues and then some) now, will I rate it in the Coast Guard? Does the Coast Guard have TA?

Being a Coast Guard pilot has been a dream for a while, and I had pretty much given up on it until they jacked up the age requirements. I'm hoping that I get it, but one never knows. Any suggestions for things that I could do to better my chances? I would pretty much give up my first born child to get into the Coast Guard (I truly feel as though I joined the wrong service).

 

[Gatordev]

Here's what I've learned in my initial lookings-into of the program:

2. Shouldn't be an issue. You can apply before leaving active service, despite what the website says. Apparently the CG actually prefers NOT having a gap in service. Apparently the 10 year restriction is the big showstopper, but since I think you're a '98 guy, shouldn't be an issue. Actually, now that I think about it, weren't you enlisted before? Might be an issue.

5. I've heard they can be accomadating. I also heard from a guy who had just been selected out of the HTs (IP) a few months back and he said he thought they wouldn't send a new DCA to Alaska for their first tour, but he wasn't sure about HI. But he also said they'd probably work w/ whatever your individual requirements were since it's such a small community.

6. Again, I've heard if you board Nov-ish, you'll hear around April-ish, maybe sooner.

 

[USCGaviator]

Here are some answers to your questions. Hope they help.

When are the boards generally held?

The dates change based on projected shortfalls but they generally hold 2 DCA boards per year. The last board was held on 22 May and the results were released in mid June.

What is the interview process like?

The board consists of 3 pilots (at least one is an O-4) and lasts about an hour or so. One area the board is interested in is your level of IFR knowledge and the items you list in your post for study look pretty solid (approach plates, enroute charts, sectionals, etc.). You may also want to take a look at the USCG website (www.uscg.mil) and review the missions so you can talk about that if you're asked.

How does co-location work? My wife is active duty Navy and has orders to Hawaii. Obviously, I want to be stationed with her, will the detailer take that into consideration?

Yes, the Detailer will work with you. We have HH-65s at Barbers Point.

How long does the training/transition to the Coast Guard usually take?

When you first come on AD you'll attend a four-week indoctrination course at the Coast Guard Academy in New London, Connecticut. From there you'll go to your first unit and await orders to attend your aircraft transition course. This wait varies but is normally 1-3 months. The transition training is in Mobile, AL and is 6 weeks long.

What about transitions to other platforms? i.e. - say my wife gets orders following Hawaii to Norfolk, how hard is it to transition to the 60 in order to be stationed in Elizabeth City?

Transitioning to another platform as a JO is not very common. Once the CG spends the time and money on your initial transition they generally expect your next 2 or 3 tours to be in that platform.

Does the Coast Guard have TA?

Yes. The CG Institute has a webpage with all the details (http://www.uscg.mil/HQ/cgi/tuition/ta.html)

If you have specific questions, feel free to email me. My email address is HeloPilotSalaries@gmail.com.

Good luck and fly safe.

Brian Hudson

 

[phrogpilot73]

Thanks for the answers! I won't be emailing you right now, but don't be surprised when you get one in early December (when I return from deployment and have reliable internet!)

 

[USCGaviator]

No problem brother. Feel free to contact me anytime and thank you for your service.

Brian

 

[Gatordev]

Okay, how about another round of DCA questions....

Question for you guys in the know: Does the CG allow you to homestead? I'd guess that it would be kind of hard if you wanted to also continue flying. From what's been said before, it seems like you need to continue taking jobs w/ more responsibility to move up, but I guess I'm asking from the point of view as not worrying about being too upwardly mobile. Basically putting 10 years in and being able to retire as an O-4 at 20. Am I misunderstanding the promotion process? Is O-4 pretty competitive?

Just wondering how feasible it is to make it to a duty station (say HI, for example) and be able to stay there long enough so that when you retire, you don't have to move.

 

[coolhand58d]

USCGaviator,

Great info on your site! I submitted a packet for the Nov. board, and was trying to get an idea on the number of applicants they are going to accept?

Thanks,

Steve