C vs. E/F

[Gatordev]

Great in theory, but if a truck gets broken down, lost, or in an accident, you are now short a truck. How this is relevant to trimming to the bare minimum needed people needed, which, in theory is not a bad thing budgetary-wise, (but can be bad if your assumptions/calculations are wrong) but the first time the actual attrition through retirement, resignations, or guys getting out for the airlines (least likely it seems lately) are noticeably higher than forecast, then it starts becoming a "3.0 for CO", not in actuality but in the tongue in cheek way that some T-notchers joked about. But yes, becomes more of a last man standing than it is at the moment.

It's still pretty competitive to get to the CO spot. There's only so many spots (per community) and it's rare that there aren't at least as many #1 DHs as there are squadrons that need a PXO. If you lose one or two along the way (which certainly happens), there's an "alternate" list of some form or another that exists, despite what "they" tell you.

The flight hours was a concern some guys had when I was HSL JO. I have two friends who are now HSL/M OICs that had under 700 hours in the B when they started the CAT 3/2 RAG Syllabus for their OIC tours. I know they are not the only ones walking back in, now being "in charge" (more so than a non-det squadron DH) and have barely more flight time than the average guy coming off his 2P cruise did at one point.

But at the point where they are now, they've already been selected for DH, so the flight hour concern (as far as career progression goes) was/is moot. Now if that flight hour concern handicaps them at their OIC/DH job is certainly a possibility and I agree they were done a disservice.

 

[MasterBates]

I was thinking more of a safety way with the limited hours. My first OIC (current or very recent HSL-46 CO) knew about anything you could, could not do, or other stuff about the 60B. He was somewhere well over 2k hours in the 60 when we started the workups for the 04 cruise, and he was well over 1000 hours before he left his JO tour. My second OIC had similar hours, but had been a Huey guy in Antartica before going HSL when that VXC job went away (he was a NAVCAD and is still on yet another good flying gig..). They were both high time guys, but not off the charts. We had some guys who had extended at the HTs/VTs (NAVCADs getting on timing) and had more hours.

Now? They are getting guys who left with under 700 hours in the B, and don't bring that much experience beyond that to the flying and tactical end.

When the OIC has the same hours a 2P going up for his HAC board used to have, I hope the lack of experience does not bite them in the ass too hard. It's not that they don't have the raw talent, but they don't have the hours, and in 3500+ hours of flying, I have learned that quantity can often be a quality all it's own. I've just seen more "Weird Shit" before, and can make a more informed decision based on it.

Yes, it's a separate issue that is not effecting promotion, I should have stated that more clearly in my post.

 

[Gatordev]

I don't disagree. That's why I said it was a disservice. What I find equally as frustrating is flying with a 2K+ hour previous-RAG IP-turned-DH who is fine at the boat and at their job but doesn't know the correct way to enter a Class C. But I don't mean that to argue your point.

I've actually flown with several from your YG and a little junior in recent months (as well as in the past on deployment). Sometimes they don't know what they don't know. Although sometimes that's just because they're in a position where they've been told they're the "best" for so long that they forget that 1200 hours TT doesn't make you a legend. It's an interesting dynamic that I could go on about, but then the jet guys will get pissy that we're helo-ing up their thread.

 

[MasterBates]

The funny thing was I was just telling Kbay in chat that the low hours guys don't know what they don't know in chat.


I'm multi-platform. I can helo or prop or jet up any thread! Don't make me bust out the BLIMP!

 

[BOMBSonHAWKEYES]

Making O-4 does NOT automatically translate to a free pass to 20 years. The Navy can address many of the issues you highlight with respect to manning and staffing - while at the same time not getting stuck paying for these individuals for the rest of their lives. Keep them as long as you need them, be honest with them about their future career progression being limited, and then cut them a severance check when you no longer need their services. It's a "cold" idea, but it addresses the concerns you have highlighted.

I agree with your post. And I think many of my fellow JOs agree too, which is why we are pursuing careers outside the navy.

 

[BusyBee604]

I agree with your post. And I think many of my fellow JOs agree too, which is why we are pursuing careers outside the navy.

Man I'm sure glad that the aviation Navy wasn't like this 50 years ago, when I was a JO. I would surely have have 'bailed' for the airlines, as they were hiring like crazy in the mid '60s. But I loved what I was doing & after much mental turmoil... decided to stay. The only time I ever regretted it was the several times I got hit in 'Indian Country', and that regret was short-lived when I returned safely, lol!
BzB