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Branch Dilemma - Advice Needed

Birdbrain

Well-Known Member
pilot
Hi all,

Let me preface this with "Yes, I am a jackass and I should have thought about this sooner" and "I'm sorry RUFiO181, I should have asked my recruiter the first day I talked to him".

My current situation is that I've just been given the N3M approval to have my MEPS physical, the details of the waivered items can be found here. I am thrilled that I've finally been given the green light for this physical as I've been in limbo concerning it for about four weeks now. Unfortunately, my OR says that I won't make the July boards with the waiting times so I'll be looking towards Fall, assuming everything goes well, to finally submit my packet.

Now that I've had some time to think (never a good thing) I've come to the realization that, while I knew I wanted to be in aviation, I also had no idea what the hell I wanted to do in aviation. My first and foremost concern was serving my country in the military. That's nothing unique around here. My second concern was to fly because being a pilot has been my dream since I was a kid. That's not uncommon around here either. So with those two concerns in mind, and after talking to a friend who went through this same process a few years back and went Navy and to a former Navy recruiter, I set up the meeting with the nearest Navy OR. Getting to the point I'm at now in that process has been the work of my OR since April 27th while I juggled the closing weeks college and submitting the requisite forms.

But, I came to realize a third concern: I want to directly support troops on the ground. This is crucial to me. According to my research, most Naval Aviators in the Navy that ever do this do it via the strike pipeline in an F/A-18 variant. I'm pragmatic and I know that the percentages of getting that role are low. It seems that a Naval Aviator in the Marines has a much greater chance of being in a ground support role, whether that is transporting marines or supporting them from the air in rotary craft or strike planes. It would mean a great deal to me to become a Naval Aviator, but it would be a tremendous privilege to also be air support.

Naval Aviators of both branches are admirable people and I would feel deeply honored and proud to be part of their ranks. I understand from reading various threads that you should focus first on being an officer of your respective branch and then a pilot. I also understand that your choice of branch should be your preference of branch culture with the knowledge of the conditions that you will be subjected to. When I was younger I wanted to be a Marine because of a role model in my life and I almost enlisted after high school but decided with some parental advice that college was a better choice; in this instance, this is more a matter of preference of the most likely expected mission.

So, with all that in mind, I'm looking for some advice from members who have experience or knowledge related to this situation. My main question is: Given the time that I now have should I also look into USMC Officer Recruitment for Naval Aviation? At the very least, I think it would be beneficial to have two options.

I don't want to betray my Navy OR and the good will and intentions of everyone who has helped me get to this point, nor do I intend this to be denigrating to the Navy or anyone that has chosen to become a USN Naval Aviator. I'm mainly trying to decipher not only what I want to do but also the best way to do it, and I could use some insight on this matter from somebody who has some to spare.

Thanks.

P.S. This is not a Marines vs Navy thread!
 

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Basing major life decisions on your impressions of what a community is like is not good headwork. Like buying a house based on what you see looking through the window. If you've got a shot at getting into uniform and into the cockpit, take it. You're making decisions based on recruiting posters. The Navy is on the front lines and directly supporting soldiers and Marines around the world. We may fight fewer lava monsters than the Marines, but Navy Aviation is involved in our various land wars in Asia, in a very high degree.
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Not to get too aphoristic here, but the term "bloom where you're planted" comes to mind. It's very true in hindsight. I've gotten to do some awesome and very varied things flying for the Navy, including rescuing Manny people (and a dog) both in SAR environments over land and sea, MEDEVACs in combat with real injured/dead warriors, teach the next generation how to fly, and now starting to fly rubber dogs hit out of Hong Kong (and all over the world). No matter where you go, you can find a way to gain the kinds of experiences you seek if you look for them. That being said, the opportunity to fly in the military is a precious and precarious one, so if you have it, don't let it go.

Something something, yut yut
 

Birdbrain

Well-Known Member
pilot
Alright. I'll hurry up and wait and stick with my Navy OR. I really do appreciate the advice as I've had a difficult time getting a straight answer from Google searches, but maybe all I needed was some AW wise men to knock a bit of sense into me to better understand this "dilemma" of mine.

Thank you.
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
Hi all,

Let me preface this with "Yes, I am a jackass and I should have thought about this sooner" and "I'm sorry RUFiO181, I should have asked my recruiter the first day I talked to him".

My current situation is that I've just been given the N3M approval to have my MEPS physical, the details of the waivered items can be found here. I am thrilled that I've finally been given the green light for this physical as I've been in limbo concerning it for about four weeks now. Unfortunately, my OR says that I won't make the July boards with the waiting times so I'll be looking towards Fall, assuming everything goes well, to finally submit my packet.

Now that I've had some time to think (never a good thing) I've come to the realization that, while I knew I wanted to be in aviation, I also had no idea what the hell I wanted to do in aviation. My first and foremost concern was serving my country in the military. That's nothing unique around here. My second concern was to fly because being a pilot has been my dream since I was a kid. That's not uncommon around here either. So with those two concerns in mind, and after talking to a friend who went through this same process a few years back and went Navy and to a former Navy recruiter, I set up the meeting with the nearest Navy OR. Getting to the point I'm at now in that process has been the work of my OR since April 27th while I juggled the closing weeks college and submitting the requisite forms.

But, I came to realize a third concern: I want to directly support troops on the ground. This is crucial to me. According to my research, most Naval Aviators in the Navy that ever do this do it via the strike pipeline in an F/A-18 variant. I'm pragmatic and I know that the percentages of getting that role are low. It seems that a Naval Aviator in the Marines has a much greater chance of being in a ground support role, whether that is transporting marines or supporting them from the air in rotary craft or strike planes. It would mean a great deal to me to become a Naval Aviator, but it would be a tremendous privilege to also be air support.

Naval Aviators of both branches are admirable people and I would feel deeply honored and proud to be part of their ranks. I understand from reading various threads that you should focus first on being an officer of your respective branch and then a pilot. I also understand that your choice of branch should be your preference of branch culture with the knowledge of the conditions that you will be subjected to. When I was younger I wanted to be a Marine because of a role model in my life and I almost enlisted after high school but decided with some parental advice that college was a better choice; in this instance, this is more a matter of preference of the most likely expected mission.

So, with all that in mind, I'm looking for some advice from members who have experience or knowledge related to this situation. My main question is: Given the time that I now have should I also look into USMC Officer Recruitment for Naval Aviation? At the very least, I think it would be beneficial to have two options.

I don't want to betray my Navy OR and the good will and intentions of everyone who has helped me get to this point, nor do I intend this to be denigrating to the Navy or anyone that has chosen to become a USN Naval Aviator. I'm mainly trying to decipher not only what I want to do but also the best way to do it, and I could use some insight on this matter from somebody who has some to spare.

Thanks.

P.S. This is not a Marines vs Navy thread!

A few things...

1) This is business to your OR and to the Navy- there is no loyalty from them so you don't owe them anything in return. If things suddenly changed and you didn't look like you'd be a competitive candidate they'd stop wasting their time with you and drop you like a bad habit.

2) You owe it to yourself to apply to anyone and everyone that can get you what you want and help you achieve your goals. Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, Army and Coast guard all have aviation programs... you should be applying to all of them if you want to be a pilot in the military. Shotgun your applications out and go with the first best offer you get.

3) Every service has opportunities for ground support missions- whether it's Boarding teams with Navy or CG helicopters, CASEVAC, ISR overwatch, air dropping supplies or kinetic employment they do exist. However, their opportunities aren't always plentiful and folks may go through an entire career without ever actually doing it in real life even though they train for it. DO NOT pursue an opportunity with X,Y,Z service or aircraft because you expect you'll be conducting the types of missions you're glorifying in your own head on a regular basis. You'll only be setting yourself up for disappointment if things don't materialize the way you've expected them to.
 

Slingblade

Huge Member
pilot
.
I want to directly support troops on the ground. This is crucial to me. It seems that a Naval Aviator in the Marines has a much greater chance of being in a ground support role.

Yea you would have a pretty good chance of supporting troops on the ground in the Marines. Without getting into the six functions of Marine aviation, Marines on the ground is the reason we exist. Really though every aviation asset in every branch in some shape, way, or form supports ground forces ( even the Air Force despite how some may look at it). Just some do it more directly. In the Marines it is pretty direct and you will be brought up understanding that. As far as recruiter goes and not doing him wrong that doesn't matter. He doesn't live with your decision. You do.
 

Birdbrain

Well-Known Member
pilot
I appreciate the advice, fellas. I'm taking time to think about this comprehensively now that it's the weekend.

DO NOT pursue an opportunity with X,Y,Z service or aircraft because you expect you'll be conducting the types of missions you're glorifying in your own head on a regular basis. You'll only be setting yourself up for disappointment if things don't materialize the way you've expected them to.
Ok, that makes sense. I'll be more realistic about these programs and do some more reasearch. I have a bad habit of assuming knowledge of something instead of asking people who actually do know, but that's why I posted this thread in the first place.

2) You owe it to yourself to apply to anyone and everyone that can get you what you want and help you achieve your goals. Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, Army and Coast guard all have aviation programs... you should be applying to all of them if you want to be a pilot in the military. Shotgun your applications out and go with the first best offer you get.
Will it not be seen as improper or non-committal of me to apply to more than one branch?

As far as recruiter goes and not doing him wrong that doesn't matter. He doesn't live with your decision. You do.
Ooh, I like that. I'm not usually the guy to think about "what I want" first but in this case, considering the gravity of the commitment, I definitely should be.
 
Last edited:

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
Will it not be seen as improper or non-committal of me to apply to more than one branch?

Does it seem improper and non committal of them to be screening more than one candidate?

It's really non of their business... don't lie about it but don't volunteer it either. If it comes up "yes (sir/ma'am), (branch X) is my first choice of service if they will have me. However, I understand competition for (job Y) is very competitive. Ultimately my goal is to be an officer in the service of our great nation. Ideally it will be with (branch X) if I am fortunate enough for them to select me."

I applied to Navy, Army, Air Force and Coast Guard when I was looking at officer accession programs. The Navy was my first choice, and came through before I had to commit to another service that offered me a position. If it hadn't I would have gone and served there.
 

RedFive

Well-Known Member
pilot
None
Contributor
Honestly- you still don't. You don't even know if you enjoy flying.

I never understood this. I had so many peers when I first joined the Navy who had never set foot in a small plane, they had no idea if they would like flying or not. Highly recommend you take a few lessons first.

As for Navy/Marines, it's the same test. I applied to both and my Marine recruiter was so overworked and swamped that the paperwork drill took longer and when the Navy came back first and said "Hey, you wanna go to OCS with this pilot slot we have for you?".....I did not sit around wondering if I should wait on the Marines. Honestly, I love the Marine Corps, but in retrospect I know I would not be a good Marine officer. I think maybe my personality is just better suited for the Navy somehow. Perhaps that's a good question to ponder yourself, though I say fuck it, apply to both anyways.

All that being said, if I could do it all over again (mind you the grass is always greener), I would prefer to fly for an organization that's dedicated to flying. Flying in the Navy is great, but it's not the only thing we do. We also bought a bunch of fucking ships for some reason and have to pay to upkeep them as well. We have our fingers in everything, SEALS, Seabees, Ships, Air, Subs....if you can imagine it, we probably have a unit that's doing it. Overall this is good for the organization, but as a pilot it can be frustrating. We're fighting to get our 10 hours a month and when you talk to your Coastie buddies and they say "Yeah, our pub requires that we fly a minimum of 25 hours a month" you start to question your choice of service!

The other point I will give you is the size of an organization. In the Navy, I'm a number. I think we have something like 8,000 pilots (someone correct me if I'm way off here) and the Coasties have 800. 800! Working for a smaller organization is always, IMO, a better deal because people actually give a shit about you. Not saying that people don't care about you in the Navy, but...it's different. I'm sure if there's any Navy -> CG aviators hanging out around here they could give their two cents on the differences.

I'll leave you with this: when I was in your shoes I had no idea that the Air National Guard was an option. There are units all over the country and you can pretty much shop around and find a unit that flies a platform you're interested in and they hire dudes off the street and send them to pilot training. Some units are a lot harder to get into than others (location and platform are a huge factor) and they want someone who's going to stick around for a long time -- it's basically like a big family -- so don't go in there planning to jump ship after you get your wings...but it's a great deal. There are guys who make it a full time job simply by volunteering to fly all the time. I have a C-5 buddy who probably has two or three times as many hours as I do and has spent his entire career "bumming" it. He has the freedom to just say fuck it and go to Mexico for six weeks or take on a civilian job if he wants.

On the other hand...I've kicked SEALS out the back of my helo, shot at drug runners, landed on the back of a ship in the middle of the night in the middle of the ocean....chances are high that the guys you see around here with gold wings have all had the opportunity to do some really rewarding stuff. Not that flying a C-5 can't be rewarding, but you know, it's just different. So, pros and cons to everything. Such is life. Any way you slice it, if you end up with wings on your chest you're going to have a good time.
 

Birdbrain

Well-Known Member
pilot
I have another question tangential to the first question for anyone who wants to answer, preferably those guys that applied to multiple branches: I've gone through the entire process of selection for SNA in the Navy i.e. took the ASTB-E, took security questionnaires, passed MEPS, etc and currently I'm just waiting for the next board date which is many months away. What would I have to do differently and/or what else would I have to do when applying at a Marine recruiter for their SNA application? I know the Marines also use the ASTB-E but I don't know about the rest of the process. The reason I ask here instead of asking a Marine recruiter is that I'd rather not lay my cards on the table if I don't have to (yet).
 

RedFive

Well-Known Member
pilot
None
Contributor
Dude. Go talk to a Marine recruiter, they don't bite. You're not signing anything. Give him your paperwork and let him run with it. Then go with whatever service gives you a pilot slot first.

ONLY do this if you feel confident you can cut it as a Marine Officer. Doubts are normal, but make sure you are onboard with what it means to be a Marine (and I'm not just talking about shitty aircraft and low flight hours, hahah, I keed!). I'm sure there's at least one Marine around here who knows how to read who could suggest some reading material that might give you some insight (yeah I got jokes :D). I was really into WEB Griffin's series on the Marines when I was in your shoes, but not having read it in a decade I can't really speak to its authenticity. It seemed pretty authentic at the time, but I didn't know much about the military then.
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
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