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Bonhomme Richard fire

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
I see a lot of traffic on social media from SWO types and former shipmates of mine that are now out, and the feeling I get is a strange one. Mostly people are posting pictures of the event, and cheering on their shipmates that are involved fighting the fire. That's a great take. What bothers me is when people are essentially showering gatorade on each other because the fire is out, or they got a different ship underway that was affected by smoke from the fire, or they supported their shipmates from a different ship in their attempts, etc.

This ship is fucked. There was no victory here. This is a significant set back. And oh, by they way, if this happened in China do you think we would be seeing all these pictures online? Am I the only one that thinks we need a serious reevaluation of our OPSEC standards? Why are helo crewmembers taking pictures, and posting them online? What purpose does that serve?
Even if the pictures from the aircrew weren't posted the news choppers were getting some pretty close up pictures.

If she hadn't been inport for the fire probably very few pictures would have been released, how many pictures of the GW fire are out there, not many, because this happened inport the public knew about it and if information isn't released they would probably be screaming the government is hiding something.

OPSEC isn't what it used to be.
 

BigRed389

Registered User
None
I see a lot of traffic on social media from SWO types and former shipmates of mine that are now out, and the feeling I get is a strange one. Mostly people are posting pictures of the event, and cheering on their shipmates that are involved fighting the fire. That's a great take. What bothers me is when people are essentially showering gatorade on each other because the fire is out, or they got a different ship underway that was affected by smoke from the fire, or they supported their shipmates from a different ship in their attempts, etc.

This ship is fucked. There was no victory here. This is a significant set back. And oh, by they way, if this happened in China do you think we would be seeing all these pictures online? Am I the only one that thinks we need a serious reevaluation of our OPSEC standards? Why are helo crewmembers taking pictures, and posting them online? What purpose does that serve?

I don't really think there's inherently a problem with the pictures going public...as already pointed out, the news choppers (and you could see the ship from outside the base gate), the fact there was an explosion which could be felt miles away, all sort of let the cat out of the bag. Anybody who cared to know knew what they needed once the island was on fire and the damn foremast collapsed.

The direct uploads to social media without any vetting or letting the PAO types do their jobs to do the whole "INFOWAR" thing, yeah, more of a problem.

As for the cheering...don't really see an issue with junior folks taking some accolades for dealing with the shit sandwich they got on Sunday morning.
And at the deckplate level, there actually are positive notes on that. Weekend duty section getting a DDG u/w while in FFEs in smoke...that's not easy and worth a kudos to the guys who pulled it off. Even more so all the junior sailors across the waterfront, off other ships or from shore commands, simply showing up to volunteer to help. Word is they had more volunteers than they needed, to the point folks had to be ordered home, to go into a ship with a major fire burning, serious explosions, and unknowns about her stability pierside. One sailor went into the fire 8 times over 4 days.
So, the guys and gals who went in and fought this thing, absolutely deserve the Gatorade shower for their efforts. In peacetime, this is as close to combat as a ship crew gets and it would seem our sailors aren't lacking in moto. I'd buy any of those kids a beer.

For more senior types? Yeah, this isn't a victory. On a strategic/system level, we fucked up and need to fix things.
And the danger is letting the good news stories prevent the necessary fact finding from happening to develop the details and dissemination of what are likely going to be some major lessons that need to be learned to figure out why the fuck this happened in the first place.
But that doesn't mean we should rain on the parade of Seaman/Airman Timmy who's been busting their ass for the past 4 days and finally got to the light at the end of a smoky tunnel.
 

MIDNJAC

is clara ship
pilot
You are upset that a free society publishes photos of a well acknowledged maritime disaster? Would you rather we take a hint from the Soviet Union? I'm confused about why you seem to want to obscure the fact that the obvious happened, as it was well documented by the press anyhow. I guess it is en vogue for Americans to suppress the truth as of late............
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
You are upset that a free society publishes photos of a well acknowledged maritime disaster? Would you rather we take a hint from the Soviet Union? I'm confused about why you seem to want to obscure the fact that the obvious happened, as it was well documented by the press anyhow. I guess it is en vogue for Americans to suppress the truth as of late............
There’s a big difference between a news helicopter or random civilian taking pictures from whatever vantage point off base. It’s completely different to be posting interior and overhead shots obviously taken by Navy personnel who should know better. You’re really going to argue “free society” about this?
 
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N/A
pilot
But the USN as an institution has a story to tell. Whether that story should be "nothing to see here folks, just ignore the burning ship" or "our Sailors gave it there all to save this ship. We had to turn away volunteers who wanted to run in to an inferno. Look how bad it was! " USN has had a lot of what is frankly self inflicted bad press lately and maybe they'll learn from those experiences to turn this story into something other than the standard "let's try and court martial some people, if unable then fire the CO, NPLOCs for all Os, and let's see how many Sailors we can NJP."

This is absolutely a tragedy and a disaster of epic proportions that maybe we'll learn could have been avoided. But, now that we're here, my opinion is that if the ship isnt a total loss that USN should do whatever it takes to get that boat back at sea as soon as possible. The fire does send a bad message to the world but a message of LHD-6 underway and launching F-35s 18mo from now also sends a message that it takes more than one punch and that we can recover and fix our gear ASAP which is also a skill that will be needed in a future war. 70yrs later and USS Yorktown making it to Midway after damage at Coral Sea is still a key story in the Navy mythos.
 

RedFive

Well-Known Member
pilot
None
Contributor
And oh, by they way, if this happened in China do you think we would be seeing all these pictures online?
DEC19: Russian's Only Carrier on Fire
DEC19: Forbes Article Warning this could happen to US Ships
26872

April 2020: Fire Breaks out on Chinese Type 075 (LHD Copy)
26871

maybe they'll learn from those experiences to turn this story into something other than the standard "let's try and court martial some people, if unable then fire the CO, NPLOCs for all Os, and let's see how many Sailors we can NJP."
giphy.gif
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
Interesting how the the fire on the Chinese ship was also in the well deck.

Maybe this is an issue they need to look at from a design/fire safety system issue? The well deck is a large open space so maybe there needs to be redundant fire suppression systems in areas where a fire could be difficult to isolate?
 

Hair Warrior

Well-Known Member
Contributor
OPSEC isn't what it used to be.
I don't really think there's inherently a problem with the pictures going public...
Let’s put it this way: I know more than a few people who would have liked to see similar photos after the Adm Kuznetsov fire.

You might think such photos are generic and widely available due to the uniquity of both smartphones and dumb humans - but that doesn’t mean photos don’t still have value.
 

Sam I am

Average looking, not a farmer.
pilot
Contributor
I've given up trying to read 15 pages of thread, so I'll just ask: is the ship officially damaged beyond repair?
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
Let’s put it this way: I know more than a few people who would have liked to see similar photos after the Adm Kuznetsov fire.

You might think such photos are generic and widely available due to the uniquity of both smartphones and dumb humans - but that doesn’t mean photos don’t still have value.

I can only imagine they people would like pics of the Adm K fire.

I should have specified OPSEC isn't what it used to be for things that happen in the US, if it happens at sea it is much easier to control.
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I've given up trying to read 15 pages of thread, so I'll just ask: is the ship officially damaged beyond repair?
Official word from CNO is essentially "anything is technically fixable, but we haven't set a dollar value on what 'beyond repair' looks like yet."
 
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