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USN Blues vs T-Birds...

pelexecute

Active Member
pilot
None
And sometimes diversity bites you in the ass, as can be seen by the recent early removal of a couple of Fat Albert pilots. Though any more on this probably needs to go over to the PNA side...

Sooo, anyone want to elaborate over in PNA?
 

Slingblade

Huge Member
pilot
IMG_3795.JPG IMG_3796.JPG
Maybe it's been a slow burn after the 82' "diamond crash" and some close calls since.

My dad was good friends with Pete Peterson who was the #3 guy on the team I believe. He was a first assignment instructor pilot (FAIP) and one of my dads flight school instructors at Reese AFB in 1972. Then my dad became a T38 FAIP so they were then instructor pilots together. Pretty much followed each other over to F4s after that until Peterson's assignment as a Thunderbird. Was a good family friend from what I understand but I don't really remember him as I was about three years old when the crash happened. Just remember my dad talking about him a lot.
Picture is of my dad on the left and Pete Peterson on the right in 1974. They went to visit my grandparents on a cross country flight. Other pic is of one of the old T38 Thunderbirds that my dad had.
 

707guy

"You can't make this shit up..."
All quiet here... if it is very recent my daughter will be severely disappointed....

Edit- Blues website confirms but could have been a scheduled rotation.....

If we're not talking about who I think we're not talking about - pretty sure both completed their Blues tours as scheduled.
 

HuggyU2

Well-Known Member
None
As someone who knows a number of the recent and not-so-recent pilots on both the Thunderbirds and the Blues, I'd like to shed some light on the comments here... some of which are not accurate. And, yes, I've asked many of these very questions at dinner, over drinks, via email/text, etc...

Boom mic: BA solo from about 10-15 years ago told me they feel the hose restricts their head turning during crosses and rendezvous, and the boom doesn't. For XC transits above FL270, they wear the mask. I found this very odd for the obvious reasons. Additionally, I was curious why FL270 is the cutoff, rather than ANY transiting.

Formation spacing: yes, the Thunderbirds are flying wider, though the picture posted is an apples-to-oranges scenario. In 1999, there was a mid-air at the Patrick Airshow involving Smack Mack, and in very simple terms, that resulted in widening some of the positions on some of the passes. Flash, your implication that they don't fly to the same level of precision is rather parochial.

G-suits: essentially correct statements. The right arm is on the leg to act as a fulcrum. As a BA solo emailed me a few years ago, "It is not humanly possible to hold 40 pounds the entire flight",... and since they have to rest the arm on the leg, the g-suit would interfere.

Why the spring? Sevenhelmet mentioned it. There is a neutral or null area in the stick movement that is described as 1/8" - 1/4". They simply cannot have that slop. The spring eliminates that. A friend of mine from the TBirds many years back said they trim the Viper full nose down. He also said that once you get used to it, you wish you had even more nose down available. I know a TB diamond pilot from just 2-3 years ago and will ask and see if anything is different.

As a side note, expect some minor changes in 2017. I attended an Airshow meeting with BA1 in December, and he said the sun angles for late afternoon shows around March-April, and Oct-Nov were a real problem that needed to be addressed, and show organizers would need to adjust their schedule to have the Blues perform earlier. What's the fallout? I expect shows to end earlier in those months, since you cannot realistically have acts perform AFTER the Blues. With El Centro and China Lake having the first two shows next month, we shall see. Pensacola end-of-season in November will likely see the change too.

As for "who do you prefer", I preferred the BA show until the TBirds got the Block 52. The loop on takeoff is a hell of a way to open a show and really showcases the extreme power that variant has. And they mixed in a lot of good, new
angles. The Blues introduced a couple of new maneuvers about 3-4 years ago that were great, but they now seem to be gone. BL, I like them both. Personally, I would like to see both teams get a lot more creative by breaking up the diamond occasionally for a lot more action and less dead time, much like the Red Arrows and The Patriots Jet Team do on the West Coast.

Another interesting difference: the TBirds have the newest jets, whereas the Blues take pride (especially their maintainers) in the fact they fly the oldest Lots. I seem to recall they were still flying some A models just 3ish years ago.

Around 2008, the Blues were in Sacramento. BA7's jet was unattended and we had U-2 zaps to put on it. Being respectful and caring vandals, we decided to only put them in the wheel wells so the public wouldn't see them, but the pilots and maintainers would. However, our attempt failed: there was so much hydraulic fluid all over the jet that nothing would stick. The zaps literally slid off. We left defeated.
 
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sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
Boom mic: BA solo from about 10-15 years ago told me they feel the hose restricts their head turning during crosses and rendezvous, and the boom doesn't. For XC transits above FL270, they wear the mask. I found this very odd for the obvious reasons. Additionally, I was curious why FL270 is the cutoff, rather than ANY transiting.

FWIW, that's the altitude in the F/A-18 where the cabin altitude approaches 10K'. Nominal pressurization schedule is 10K' cabin at FL280, then roughly 0.4 x aircraft altitude above that. We often refer to transits below FL280/270 as the "maskoffosphere". Or, at least, we would, if we weren't always wearing our masks from takeoff to landing. Always. Even on 6+ hour flights.

Around 2008, the Blues were in Sacramento. BA7's jet was unattended and we had U-2 zaps to put on it. Being respectful and caring vandals, we decided to only put them in the wheel wells so the public wouldn't see them, but the pilots and maintainers would. However, our attempt failed: there was so much hydraulic fluid all over the jet that nothing would stick. The zaps literally slid off. We left defeated.

I guess they planned ahead for people like you. If it ain't leaking, it's empty. ;)
 

zipmartin

Never been better
pilot
Contributor
FWIW, that's the altitude in the F/A-18 where the cabin altitude approaches 10K'. Nominal pressurization schedule is 10K' cabin at FL280, then roughly 0.4 x aircraft altitude above that. We often refer to transits below FL280/270 as the "maskoffosphere". Or, at least, we would, if we weren't always wearing our masks from takeoff to landing. Always. Even on 6+ hour flights.

I finished my last 14 years flying the A-4 and the last 10 years doing adversary work. When I was transiting or flying x/c, I never flew above FL240 (10k feet cockpit altitude) if I absolutely didn’t have to for wx or fuel considerations, allowing me to have my mask off. I eventually rigged a setup that with a flip of a switch would go from the mic in the mask to a boom mic. The PR’s shook their heads but I convinced them to allow me to keep it as long as I removed any evidence of it prior to any inspections. I used the boom a lot during the adversary flying as it was a lot easier to look over the shoulder, although I found the best tactic was to ALWAYS keep the target in front.;)

As a TAR (now FTS) in an adversary squadron, I served with “Nordo”, a SELRES who was with the Blues back in ’78-’80. He “taught” us the Blues trick for a super smooth section takeoff of using flaps up vice ½ flaps and 3 degrees of nose up trim vice the NATOPS prescribed 6 degrees. The lift-off point was a bit farther down the runway, but it was definitely much smoother and required much smaller stick inputs to maintain position. We used that technique almost exclusively from then on.
 

HuggyU2

Well-Known Member
None
Update: I just returned from the Blues' season opener in El Centro. Great show, as always.
The show took place Saturday, 11 hours before the clocks changed to Daylight Savings. As such, the sun angles were adequate, and the Blues started their narration at 1430, just like they have for many years... proving me wrong that they might be starting the show earlier this year, as per direction from The Boss.

Look for me next year, if you're there.
 
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