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USN Blues vs T-Birds...

ChuckMK23

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
Nice article on practice season: https://theaviationist.com/?p=41189


It came to me that our two display teams operate very differently and now I am curious as to why.

Blues modify their Hornets with a control spring on the stick exerting constant 40 LBS of pressure nose down as a way of maintaining precision.

Thunderbirds fly traditional F-16 with FBW - that provides no real control force feedback -

Yet each team flies with equal precision.

Blues fly with boom mic and no G-suit where as Thunderbirds fly with O2 mask and G-suit at all times. Wondering why?

220px-Blue_Angels_Pilot.jpg
vs
Air-Force-Thunderbirds.jpg
 
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P

Pags

N/A
pilot
ChuckMK23 said:
Nice article on practice season: https://theaviationist.com/?p=41189


It came to me that our two display teams operate very differently and now I am curious as to why.

Blues modify their Hornets with a control spring on the stick exerting constant 40 LBS of pressure nose down as a way of maintaining precision.

Thunderbirds fly traditional F-16 with FBW - that provides no real control force feedback -

Yet each team flies with equal precision.

Blues fly with boom mic and no G-suit where as Thunderbirds fly with O2 mask and G-suit at all times. Wondering why?

220px-Blue_Angels_Pilot.jpg
vs
Air-Force-Thunderbirds.jpg
Click to expand...
More than one way to skin a cat
 
BenDog

BenDog

Active Member
I may be ever so biased......After being part of traveling warbird show and seeing both teams several times throughout the season, Blues put on a better show.
 
Flash

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
ChuckMK23 said:
Yet each team flies with equal precision.
Click to expand...

That is debatable, each team has their own unique routine.

ChuckMK23 said:
Blues modify their Hornets with a control spring on the stick exerting constant 40 LBS of pressure nose down as a way of maintaining precision....Blues fly with boom mic and no G-suit where as Thunderbirds fly with O2 mask and G-suit at all times. Wondering why?.
Click to expand...

The book Blue Angels: A Portrait of Gold by Brian Shul provides an good explanation for the spring and lack of G-suit. I might miss some of the details but since every aircraft flies differently, even straight and level, the spring forces the pilots to actively fly the planes at all times and since they fly so close active control of the aircraft at all times even when straight and level is necessary. The lack of the G-suit is a direct result of the spring, the pilots fly with their right arms resting on their right thigh and the inflation and deflation of a G-suit would interfere with their control of the aircraft.
 
707guy

707guy

"You can't make this shit up..."
I think the easiest explanation is that the teams reflect the culture of their respective services.

When you need a Super Bowl flyover at an open air stadium:
Blues_SB.jpg

When the Super Bowl is at a domed stadium and the roof is closed:
TB_SB.jpg
 
sevenhelmet

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
It's apples and oranges (or fighter pilots and flying accountants) ;)

But seriously; my partially-educated guess(es) is(are):

1.) Center stick in the F/A-18 vs. side stick in the F-16. In the Fighting Falcon, your stick hand doesn't touch the g suit.
2.) Stick is a position controller and pitch is a g command in the F/A-18. The stick is a force controller and pitch is a rate command in the F-16. (e.g. the F-16 stick moves only a fraction of an inch, while the Hornet stick moves up to several inches, and the way that translates to aircraft response is different.)
3.) The F/A-18 has a definite neutral stick position with slight but noticeable breakout force which can lead to a very mild PIO tendency in close formation flying when near a neutral stick position. As close together as the Blues fly, that's probably significant. For normal parade/fingertip position, it's normally not noticeable unless you're over-controlling the jet.
 
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tarjas

tarjas

Alooo-haaa
None
Flash said:
That is debatable, each team has their own unique routine.

The book Blue Angels: A Portrait of Gold by Brian Shul provides an good explanation for the spring and lack of G-suit. I might miss some of the details but since every aircraft flies differently, even straight and level, the spring forces the pilots to actively fly the planes at all times and since they fly so close active control of the aircraft at all times even when straight and level is necessary. The lack of the G-suit is a direct result of the spring, the pilots fly with their right arms resting on their right thigh and the inflation and deflation of a G-suit would interfere with their control of the aircraft.
Click to expand...

In conversation with Boss Frosh he mentioned he went through several super shit hot BA flight suits b/c he wore a hole on his right leg....
 
Flash

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Malo83 said:
Plus the Blues fly a tighter formation. :cool:
Click to expand...

I believe that actually accounts for some of the differences.

tarjas said:
In conversation with Boss Frosh he mentioned he went through several super shit hot BA flight suits b/c he wore a hole on his right leg....
Click to expand...

One thing I just remembered from the book, the pilots make many of the control movements just with their wrist and apparently that accounts for their extremely strong handshakes.
 
kunks

kunks

Member
None
Does anyone know if they still flew without g suits and used a spring in the other air frames? A-4, F-4?
 
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