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Are individual awards getting watered down (ie a NAM for a Det)?

BusyBee604

St. Francis/Hugh Hefner Combo!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Again just for reference - I caught and killed - confirmed by msg traffic - 112 NVA regulars near the DMZ one day. Blew them to bits with FAC's control. But even though confirmed KBA, no medal was ever awarded. Why? I was not under fire, other than small arms.

Bummer, seems to me..that mission, with the verified BDA, rated at least a DFC. Small arms only... that's lame, "Young Nguyen", the rice farmer's nephew, has brought down many a low-flying multi-million $$$ warplane with their trusty rifle/AK-47, both north & south of the DMZ!

You didn't mention a ribbon earned on your '72-73 MIDWAY adventure, that you can take great pride in, the PUC! That is a TEAM award giving equal credit to "Os" & "White Hats", Ship'sCo & CVW-5 alike, for sustained performance as a team, and participation in LINEBACKER II. It's a simple fact, that due to the 4-year bombing halt up north for most of the cruise, juicy hi-val, vigorously defended targets & MIG encounters were rare, and thus meaningful combat awards were rare also, compared to the earlier ROLLING THUNDER.
Battle Damage-2.jpgpuc.jpg
*As you noted, just a few inches/feet can make a big difference!
BzB
 

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
Not defending the decision regarding your crewmen (I don't the details), but you make a BROAD oversimplified, dismissive generalization about the guys at 30,000'...
Three Air Medals for burning circles at 24k in a Hummer. Jack and shit for actual support involving hairy flying relatively in a Bravo.

Sent from my PH44100 using Tapatalk 2
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Here's my beef, I put in a few of my aircrewmen for an individual action air medal for what we did on cruise against pirates (anyone remember the Quest, not to mention a few other things I can't mention), but they didn't get approved and yet guys doing circles at 30,000 feet came home with at least one, sometimes two or three, air medals. I don't get it.


Not to discuss things which may or may not be privileged/classified, but... speaking about open-source information: isn't this the piracy case where the hostages on board were murdered? If it's the case I'm thinking of, I recall our wardroom being briefed on what happened. PM as necessary.
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
Bummer, seems to me..that mission, with the verified BDA, rated at least a DFC.
and this I think gets to the root of what I tend to think about medals.

As individuals, most of us don't want awards for what we consider "just doing our job/what I was trained for", which is fine. Not many of us signed up for the medals. But as leaders I think, in general, that people worry too damned much about the "sanctity" or potential inflation of an award and less about the need to recognize folks who work for us who do their jobs in an outstanding fashion.

Although most would profess to not care, all the citations attached posts above, kept over the years, shows to me that the recognition is welcomed and appreciated by the individual. Do i think that we should hand out Medals of Honor and Navy Crosses like candy? Not at all. But maybe some more specific action air medals would be a good place to star for real missions conducted well with real results.

For some reason, our naval culture seems to want to go against giving out awards. I got huge push-back for the chiefs when I was looking for nominees for the monthly safety pro "award". The safety pro doesn't come with any perks, just a nice piece of paper with the skipper's John Hancock on it that the sailor can show off to mom. But every month the chiefs would piss and moan that we were giving an award for people doing their job. Even when I said "give me the name of a kid who's doing his job well" they'd still pitch a fit. Of course, awhile later when maintenance has been working hard for a long time the skipper says he wants to give guys some NAMs for the effort. No names were provided until the skipper asked for them. The boss was willing and ready to recognize guys for working long hours to make missions happen, but the desk just said "that's their job"

If we give an award and the sailor acts humble, that doesn't mean the award wasn't appreciated or warranted. It just means that the awardee has a good attitude. Sure he'll be embarrassed when his buddies give him a hard time for being a golden boy and he'll say things like "I don't care", but I'm sure he'll still proudly tell his wife or mom and dad about it.
 

hscs

Registered User
pilot
For some reason, our naval culture seems to want to go against giving out awards. I got huge push-back for the chiefs when I was looking for nominees for the monthly safety pro "award". The safety pro doesn't come with any perks, just a nice piece of paper with the skipper's John Hancock on it that the sailor can show off to mom. But every month the chiefs would piss and moan that we were giving an award for people doing their job. Even when I said "give me the name of a kid who's doing his job well" they'd still pitch a fit. Of course, awhile later when maintenance has been working hard for a long time the skipper says he wants to give guys some NAMs for the effort. No names were provided until the skipper asked for them. The boss was willing and ready to recognize guys for working long hours to make missions happen, but the desk just said "that's their job"

Your perception may be a bit jaded by your experience (like everyone, I suppose). My personal opinion - the CMC needs to have a heart to heart with the Goat Locker. I haven't seen things that bad.

As for air medals during OIF/OND, I will say that there were always issues for non-CVW aligned squadrons in NAVCENT - so bad that visits by the squadron front office to NAVCENT N1 had to be made (and helped fix some problems). The way that I saw it - CTF50 was given the authority to sign for the air medals for the CVW assets (translation - shorter approval chain than non-CVW squadrons, and an approving authority that was co-located with those conducting the missions). Ironically, I just read a book about HAL-3 in Vietnam - the book mentioned the same issues about air medals in Vietnam.....
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot

Chunks, I just noticed the change in your "status." May I suggest a picture change to go along with it?

220px-Ironmaiden-Purgatory.jpg
 

robav8r

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
But every month the chiefs would piss and moan that we were giving an award for people doing their job. Even when I said "give me the name of a kid who's doing his job well" they'd still pitch a fit. Of course, awhile later when maintenance has been working hard for a long time the skipper says he wants to give guys some NAMs for the effort. No names were provided until the skipper asked for them. The boss was willing and ready to recognize guys for working long hours to make missions happen, but the desk just said "that's their job"

Those weren't Chiefs, they were E-7's . . . big difference.
 

PhrogLoop

Adulting is hard
pilot
Just for reference, below are a few of my awards – one my only Air Medal – my highest award - the others NCMs...
PS: Again just for reference - I caught and killed - confirmed by msg traffic - 112 NVA regulars near the DMZ one day. Blew them to bits with FAC's control. But even though confirmed KBA, no medal was ever awarded. Why? I was not under fire, other than small arms.
How much you guys wanna bet that these Air Force guys are earning Air Medals just for flying in theater?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/03/w...ian-gulf-a-signal-to-iran.html?pagewanted=all
 

Renegade One

Well-Known Member
None
Apropos of nothing whatsoever, the first "words of advice" I ever got regarding wings and higher awards were from my DI in AOCS Class 26-71..."Myers' Flyers"...
SSGT Al Myers, USMC: "The only wings you guys are ever gonna see are chicken fuckin' wings!'
Beyond the single gold stripe on the parade ground...and the silver dollar passed to "Big Al"...everything else was gravy...just gravy.
 

Kaman

Beech 1900 pilot's; "Fly it like you stole it"
I would have to say that NAMs and NCMs are both getting watered down...I am embarrassed to admit that I have 3 NAMs and a NCM. Although, one of the NAMs was for a rescue. However, the NCM was just being in the right place at the right time and having a pulse...I am more proud of earning my West Coast Rescue Swimmer patch, Naval Aircrewman Wings and Navy Master Training Specialist designation. Those three things really required a lot of work and effort on my part. Medals, campaign ribbons are all window dressing IMHO.
 

Catmando

Keep your knots up.
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
How much you guys wanna bet that these Air Force guys are earning Air Medals just for flying in theater?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/03/w...ian-gulf-a-signal-to-iran.html?pagewanted=all

Possibly. Or maybe probably?

In Vietnam, I understand every Air Force pilot - if he didn't actually earn it otherwise – received a "kiss goodbye" DFC, just for being there!

[Moreover, they got yanked out of theater upon reaching100 missions, while Navy and Marine Corps guys had no limit and served repeatedly, some accumulating hundreds of combat missions.]
That might be OK, except I know hundreds of Naval Aviators/NFOs/Crewmen who were there in SEA for more than one tour, did things many times more deserving under fire with great results, and many never received a DFC. Big difference between the senior and junior services award policies. Ya think?
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
I would have to say that NAMs and NCMs are both getting watered down...I am embarrassed to admit that I have 3 NAMs and a NCM. Although, one of the NAMs was for a rescue. However, the NCM was just being in the right place at the right time and having a pulse...I am more proud of earning my West Coast Rescue Swimmer patch, Naval Aircrewman Wings and Navy Master Training Specialist designation. Those three things really required a lot of work and effort on my part. Medals, campaign ribbons are all window dressing IMHO.

watered down awards depends on the command, I have been at commands where their could be an E-5 that takes the initiative to do something on his own, and on his own time that betters the division but just gets a good job, while the CPO and/or DIVO get NCM/NAM for nothing other than filling a billet. I have also been at commands where that E-5 gets recognized and the CPO and/or DIVO get nothing, because they did nothing.
 
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