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AH-1W (Turkey) shootdown

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
Be a lot cooler if we already had it. I know for a fact it's been a bitch for awhile about why NAVAIR can pump a lot of money into certain programs but leaves low hanging fruit such as upgraded ASE to fester on the vine. The stuff that is supposedly coming should've been fielded by now.
Unfortunately it's the perception of necessity... If it was back in that period in 07 where a helo was getting shot down an average of once a week, then maybe they'd expedite the fielding of the system. Since "Combat Operations have ended" for brand X forces, it's not a funding priority.
 

busdriver

Well-Known Member
None
It has a lot of priority now. It's late, but barring any huge stumbling points it should be coming. SWAP has been a big problem.

Still doesn't trump accurate threat/tactics assessment. But we also have a long history of doing that very poorly, and going full retard in one direction or the other.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Since "Combat Operations have ended" for brand X forces, it's not a funding priority.
Not remotely true. It's coming, as busdriver mentioned. Is it late? Sure. But honestly, on the AC, conventional Navy side, who cares? It hasn't truly been needed yet, as the mission set has been in a low-threat environment. As we "pivot" (and/or continue to poke at our new best friends in the eye) it probably is much more valuable for future naval operations.
 

Pags

Pope of Chili Town
pilot
H-53s and H-46s have had some form of DIRCM for awhile. Like @Gatordev said, I just don't think there's been enough need for it on the Navy fleet helos.
 

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
One of the things that I noticed between the two shootdowns is the Cobra was torn apart instantly while the Phrog did not de-synch the rotors and seemed to keep flying for a while. Perhaps it was the size of the warhead or the location of impact? Did the 46 get hit in the unprotected rear or did the warhead impact on the armor plate covering the engines?
 

Pags

Pope of Chili Town
pilot
One of the things that I noticed between the two shootdowns is the Cobra was torn apart instantly while the Phrog did not de-synch the rotors and seemed to keep flying for a while. Perhaps it was the size of the warhead or the location of impact? Did the 46 get hit in the unprotected rear or did the warhead impact on the armor plate covering the engines?
No clue, NAVAIR has a team of guys who analyze shootdowns for lessons learned but I doubt there reports are unclass. Not sure if the weapons used were the same.
 

Hotdogs

Leeroy Jenkins
pilot
PKK are our allies - yes? Turkey is our Allie and a NATO member. Why we don't tell Turkey to chill is beyond me.

Are Turkey's Whiskey pilots trained at our FRS?
No. They fly the AH-1W but there are significant differences in ASE, sensors, and fire control systems.

One of the things that I noticed between the two shootdowns is the Cobra was torn apart instantly while the Phrog did not de-synch the rotors and seemed to keep flying for a while. Perhaps it was the size of the warhead or the location of impact? Did the 46 get hit in the unprotected rear or did the warhead impact on the armor plate covering the engines?
If that impact is what I saw it (I think), it was right above and the rear of the engine exhaust and probably severed the tail rotor drive shaft instantly, and then nose tucking, main rotor strike of the fuselage and resultant fireball. Also of note, no exhaust suppressors on most Turkish AH-1Ws like most modern attack/utility helicopters fielded by major 1st world militaries. Looks like an SA-16 and definitely made my neck hairs stand up.

No clue, NAVAIR has a team of guys who analyze shootdowns for lessons learned but I doubt there reports are unclass. Not sure if the weapons used were the same.
Yes, JCAT does the assessments on combat aircraft losses and has good information on SIPR.
 

RobLyman

- hawk Pilot
pilot
None
Not remotely true. It's coming, as busdriver mentioned. Is it late? Sure. But honestly, on the AC, conventional Navy side, who cares? It hasn't truly been needed yet, as the mission set has been in a low-threat environment. As we "pivot" (and/or continue to poke at our new best friends in the eye) it probably is much more valuable for future naval operations.
If you look at our aircraft in the hangar stateside six or more months out from a deployment they would be significantly different than when they are in country. This is how we save money and not buy ASE and other gear for every aircraft in the fleet. The downside is that sometimes your modified aircraft don't come home with you when you return. They stay for a few rotations. You end up borrowing someone else's aircraft until yours return and are sent to reset.
 

Austin-Powers

Lean and Mean!
Since you didn't seem to detect sarcasm, I'll try again. Maybe the next time you see a video of people dying, save the dipshit comment like "good missile hit" for YouTube comments where you'll fit in. Sorry to say.
Nah.. I noticed the sarcasm, it is sad, people dying, I am not laughing manically. i am not rooting for the guys who fired the missile, if I was, I would be on their side. I am sorry if my comment came off as rude.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Nah.. I noticed the sarcasm, it is sad, people dying, I am not laughing manically. i am not rooting for the guys who fired the missile, if I was, I would be on their side. I am sorry if my comment came off as rude.
It did, next time keep the comment to yourself.
 

insanebikerboy

Internet killed the television star
pilot
None
Contributor
If you look at our aircraft in the hangar stateside six or more months out from a deployment they would be significantly different than when they are in country. This is how we save money and not buy ASE and other gear for every aircraft in the fleet. The downside is that sometimes your modified aircraft don't come home with you when you return. They stay for a few rotations. You end up borrowing someone else's aircraft until yours return and are sent to reset.
Isn't that an Army thing? I thought all Navy units deployed with and brought their same aircraft home with them.
 
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