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Marine Corps aviation and infantry

Hello,

I recently got selected for PLC as an air contract. I have a few quick questions before I decide to go. How frequent are the opportunities for USMC pilots to work with the infantry and does this only entail FAC tours? Do the pilots that work with infantry typically come from the skid community, as in, is a Huey pilot more likely to get assigned as a FAC than an F-35 pilot? Many many years down the line, could there be an opportunity to screen for MARSOC as a FAC, and again, would this opportunity be more likely for a rotary wing pilot?

The reason I ask is because SOF has always been my dream, but it seems smarter to go Officer, however, if opportunities are limited in working directly with the infantry or SOF for pilots. I think I may strongly consider enlisting as an 18X after college instead of pursing a commission.

Thanks.
 

whitesoxnation

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
I know at least one pilot that did a FAC tour with MARSOC after their first tour as a Hornet pilot.

You should choose what platform you want to fly based off of what you want to fly, not based off of B-billet. 3+ years is a long time doing something that may not have been your first choice as a means to an end that isn’t certain. The Marine Corps is so short on pilots it is sending people back to fleet squadrons they don’t want to be there, so I’d be prepared to do 6 years as a pilot in your platform.
 

bucka

Member
pilot
Definitely possible to do a FAC tour as a pilot, but no guarantees as to what type of unit. You won't be becoming an infantry/MARSOC officer and staying there, if that's what you're asking. Keep in mind that with flight training and your first tour, you'll be doing pilot things for at least five years before you are up for new orders, and with personnel issues across different aviation communities, you may get orders to stay flying.

There's enough time and effort required to be an aviator that that should be your primary goal, if you go for an air contract. If you want to be an infantry officer, do that. I haven't been to a rifle range in 5 years, but Marine aviation is built around CAS and you will have the chance to support ground dudes that way.
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
All communities do FAC tours. The exception for a while was ospreys but I had an osprey guy in my class five years ago so I guess that’s long over. The billets are mostly sourced through each MAG, but there are others (Japan and Hawaii) that go through the normal monitor process. In general if you want a FAC tour, you can get one. MARSOC is a screening process and I’ve known skid guys and tacair guys to do that.
 

Choppering

Member
pilot
None
Hello,

I recently got selected for PLC as an air contract. I have a few quick questions before I decide to go. How frequent are the opportunities for USMC pilots to work with the infantry and does this only entail FAC tours? Do the pilots that work with infantry typically come from the skid community, as in, is a Huey pilot more likely to get assigned as a FAC than an F-35 pilot? Many many years down the line, could there be an opportunity to screen for MARSOC as a FAC, and again, would this opportunity be more likely for a rotary wing pilot?

The reason I ask is because SOF has always been my dream, but it seems smarter to go Officer, however, if opportunities are limited in working directly with the infantry or SOF for pilots. I think I may strongly consider enlisting as an 18X after college instead of pursing a commission.

Thanks.

Good question Dude,

Great responses from the guys before me. I do want to add a few things.

if your goal is to work for the ground force, Marine aviation is a great place to be. You’ll have that opportunity frequently during your time in the squadron. When picking your platform, I’d be less concerned with the frequency you’re working with a ground force and instead what it is you want to do to support them. It really comes down to two things- providing fires or flying them around (generally).
For Fac tours it is true that those jobs are available to all platforms. If you want to be good, you’ll be a TACAIR or HMLA pilot. Others are free to disagree but generally speaking it’s the truth. As a CAS aircraft you have an understanding of fires that is tough for your VMM and HMH guys to catch up to in the short time you fill the job. There are exceptions but just bear with me here. As far as MARSOC goes, they are typically picked from HMLA and TACAIR WTI’s. But realize you are not a FAC running around controlling CAS assets with an MSOT. Instead you are a Company AIRO. More or less managing the program, requesting air for training, for the dedicated enlisted controllers, etc. It’s still a sought after billet. But like other FAC tours, think of it as a few years or career broadening after your first 3-5 years in a squadron, before or after Captains Career course, vs you truly being a part of the SOCOM community for an extended period or time.

let me know if you have other questions
 

Duc'-guy25

Well-Known Member
pilot
Hello,

I recently got selected for PLC as an air contract. I have a few quick questions before I decide to go. How frequent are the opportunities for USMC pilots to work with the infantry and does this only entail FAC tours? Do the pilots that work with infantry typically come from the skid community, as in, is a Huey pilot more likely to get assigned as a FAC than an F-35 pilot? Many many years down the line, could there be an opportunity to screen for MARSOC as a FAC, and again, would this opportunity be more likely for a rotary wing pilot?

The reason I ask is because SOF has always been my dream, but it seems smarter to go Officer, however, if opportunities are limited in working directly with the infantry or SOF for pilots. I think I may strongly consider enlisting as an 18X after college instead of pursing a commission.

Thanks.

Not a bad question to ask dude; I think the dudes above gave you the answers you were looking for, but there’s a couple things I would ask yourself though. The big one is how big is your interest in actually flying?

If you decide your interest is overall being a Marine Officer, then by all means go to PLC. Ircc it’s non binding anyway. You can always drop an air contract down the road at TBS if you really want, and there’s usually dudes trying to pick them up. I would wait until after you do some field stuff because everyone likes the idea of doing grunt things until it’s time to go do grunt things.

That being said if your overall goal is to go MARSOC or be a FAC, then I would hesitant to go down down the pilot road. If you don’t think you’re into flying, then you’re not going to have a good time. Especially if you end up going TACAIR where work ends up becoming your life.

As far as Officer vs Enlisted, that depends on a lot dude. Drastically different lifestyles, and it really depends on what kind of BS you want to put up with. Do you want to be treated to the lowest common denominator on a day to day basis (the guy who has to be told he needs to brush his teeth and shower everyday), or do you want to deal the fun end of Marines doing stupid shit (biting people they shouldn’t be biting). Lifestyle as an O is obviously significantly better, and being a pilot is one of the few fun/cool hands on jobs that officers get to do. The E side is definitely more hands on, but the first few years as a young Pfc/LCpl could surely be frustrating depending on where you are in your life.

Again, not questions you have to answer for yourself right now. If you think there’s a decent likelihood being a Marine O is what you want do, then go to PLC. If you decide pilot really isn’t want what you want to do, you can most likely compete for something else at TBS. Pretty sure MARSOC is open to all MOS’s, but if you’re pinning your sole hope of being an operator through Marine Air, that may not be the best/most enjoyable route.
 
Not a bad question to ask dude; I think the dudes above gave you the answers you were looking for, but there’s a couple things I would ask yourself though. The big one is how big is your interest in actually flying?

If you decide your interest is overall being a Marine Officer, then by all means go to PLC. Ircc it’s non binding anyway. You can always drop an air contract down the road at TBS if you really want, and there’s usually dudes trying to pick them up. I would wait until after you do some field stuff because everyone likes the idea of doing grunt things until it’s time to go do grunt things.

That being said if your overall goal is to go MARSOC or be a FAC, then I would hesitant to go down down the pilot road. If you don’t think you’re into flying, then you’re not going to have a good time. Especially if you end up going TACAIR where work ends up becoming your life.

As far as Officer vs Enlisted, that depends on a lot dude. Drastically different lifestyles, and it really depends on what kind of BS you want to put up with. Do you want to be treated to the lowest common denominator on a day to day basis (the guy who has to be told he needs to brush his teeth and shower everyday), or do you want to deal the fun end of Marines doing stupid shit (biting people they shouldn’t be biting). Lifestyle as an O is obviously significantly better, and being a pilot is one of the few fun/cool hands on jobs that officers get to do. The E side is definitely more hands on, but the first few years as a young Pfc/LCpl could surely be frustrating depending on where you are in your life.

Again, not questions you have to answer for yourself right now. If you think there’s a decent likelihood being a Marine O is what you want do, then go to PLC. If you decide pilot really isn’t want what you want to do, you can most likely compete for something else at TBS. Pretty sure MARSOC is open to all MOS’s, but if you’re pinning your sole hope of being an operator through Marine Air, that may not be the best/most enjoyable route.

Thank you for the answer sir, that is pretty much the mentality that I think I should adopt. I'll go to PLC, and then really think about some of those questions that you proposed during my last year of school.
 
Good question Dude,

Great responses from the guys before me. I do want to add a few things.

if your goal is to work for the ground force, Marine aviation is a great place to be. You’ll have that opportunity frequently during your time in the squadron. When picking your platform, I’d be less concerned with the frequency you’re working with a ground force and instead what it is you want to do to support them. It really comes down to two things- providing fires or flying them around (generally).
For Fac tours it is true that those jobs are available to all platforms. If you want to be good, you’ll be a TACAIR or HMLA pilot. Others are free to disagree but generally speaking it’s the truth. As a CAS aircraft you have an understanding of fires that is tough for your VMM and HMH guys to catch up to in the short time you fill the job. There are exceptions but just bear with me here. As far as MARSOC goes, they are typically picked from HMLA and TACAIR WTI’s. But realize you are not a FAC running around controlling CAS assets with an MSOT. Instead you are a Company AIRO. More or less managing the program, requesting air for training, for the dedicated enlisted controllers, etc. It’s still a sought after billet. But like other FAC tours, think of it as a few years or career broadening after your first 3-5 years in a squadron, before or after Captains Career course, vs you truly being a part of the SOCOM community for an extended period or time.

let me know if you have other questions

Thank you for the detailed response Sir. When you say that MARSOC FACs are picked from HMLA and TACAIR WTI's, does that mean that the people that are picked completed the weapons and tactics insturctors cource? Also if former pilots are Company AIRO's for MARSOC, and doing less hands on FAC work, do they still need to attend A&S? Does this apply to most FAC tours in general (outside of MARSOC) for officers, the more managerial aspect of it, instead of hands on work such as controlling CAS assets?
 
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I know at least one pilot that did a FAC tour with MARSOC after their first tour as a Hornet pilot.

You should choose what platform you want to fly based off of what you want to fly, not based off of B-billet. 3+ years is a long time doing something that may not have been your first choice as a means to an end that isn’t certain. The Marine Corps is so short on pilots it is sending people back to fleet squadrons they don’t want to be there, so I’d be prepared to do 6 years as a pilot in your platform.
Thank you for the response. I'm sorry if I'm not understanding, what does sending people back to a fleet squadron have to do with spending a lot of time on your platform?
 

Hotdogs

I don’t care if I hurt your feelings
pilot
Thank you for the detailed response Sir. When you say that MARSOC FACs are picked from HMLA and TACAIR WTI's, does that mean that the people that are picked completed the weapons and tactics insturctors cource? Also if former pilots are Company AIRO's for MARSOC, and doing less hands on FAC work, do they still need to attend A&S? Does this apply to most FAC tours in general (outside of MARSOC) for officers, the more managerial aspect of it, instead of hands on work such as controlling CAS assets?

MARSOC Air Officer selection is a board process. Highly qualified individuals are what they want to select. WTI usually meets that intent, and/or usually individuals with extensive FAC experience. TACAIR and HMLA have a large leg up in selection due to their fires experience but it’s not a hard and fast rule. MARSOC Air Officers do not goto A&S much like the vast majority of the special staff at the MRBs. MARSOC Air-Os do way more program management, planning, evaluating, advising, and JTAC training than actual controlling aircraft doing CAS. They are there to train the JTAC assigned to the MSOTs. That’s what he means by that statement. Infantry Battalion FACs and Air-Os get way more hands on controlling aircraft as a part of a conventional Battalion Fire Support structure.

Thank you for the response. I'm sorry if I'm not understanding, what does sending people back to a fleet squadron have to do with spending a lot of time on your platform?
He’s saying your going to spend way more time in your aircraft (platform) than you will doing FAC things. Therefore you should pick something you want to fly vice basing it off of an arbitrary b-billet that may or may not even be an opportunity for you.
 

whitesoxnation

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
He’s saying your going to spend way more time in your aircraft (platform) than you will doing FAC things. Therefore you should pick something you want to fly vice basing it off of an arbitrary b-billet that may or may not even be an opportunity for you.

Yep!
 
MARSOC Air Officer selection is a board process. Highly qualified individuals are what they want to select. WTI usually meets that intent, and/or usually individuals with extensive FAC experience. TACAIR and HMLA have a large leg up in selection due to their fires experience but it’s not a hard and fast rule. MARSOC Air Officers do not goto A&S much like the vast majority of the special staff at the MRBs. MARSOC Air-Os do way more program management, planning, evaluating, advising, and JTAC training than actual controlling aircraft doing CAS. They are there to train the JTAC assigned to the MSOTs. That’s what he means by that statement. Infantry Battalion FACs and Air-Os get way more hands on controlling aircraft as a part of a conventional Battalion Fire Support structure.


He’s saying your going to spend way more time in your aircraft (platform) than you will doing FAC things. Therefore you should pick something you want to fly vice basing it off of an arbitrary b-billet that may or may not even be an opportunity for you.
Thank you Sir, that cleared it up for me.
 
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