Which kind of a squadrons contains slots for junior AMDO?

[Jim123]

In general,
It is “overkill” to utilize an “engineer” to service oil, change a hydraulic pump, or fix a broken wire.

It might also be "a lost in translation" thing for what is a broad term.

In England, an "engineer" is the guy who fixes your car- not like in the new world where an engineer is a licensed professional who stamps a set of technical drawings and certifies that the bridge won't fall down and the airplane's wings won't break off. It kinda depends on which English dialect Mad Max is using.

 

[Judge Q]

What % of Russian officers get wrenches?

 

[Brett327]

For the record, Max, our Chiefs don’t turn wrenches either. Most of our aircraft systems experts are 20 something E5 and E6.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

In general,
It is “overkill” to utilize an “engineer” to service oil, change a hydraulic pump, or fix a broken wire. The Navy utilizes quality enlisted training, near “fool proof” maintenance manuals, and a “phone a friend” approach to engineering support at the squadron level. In other words, one engineer supports many squadrons because there just isn’t that many issues that need an engineer’s input to resolve. Our ground officers, in general, lead the enlisted effort and manage the programs with highest safety risks. Normally, a mix of 3 AMDOs/LDOs will get this job done but there are many exceptions.

Well thanks a lot,

This "call to a friend" is very limited in Russian military as it has a meaning "if you call for a tech support to other specialist at higher level it means you fucked up", and your "friend" will offrec inform your seniors that you're poor in your job. Kinda Asian approach, Chinese military suffers the same for sure. Just do or die on your own level. In a WWII Russian fighter pilots were amazed by the fact that Germans had easily bailed out of damaged airplanes while "Stalin falcons" tried to return even the mortally wounded birds to a friendly airstrip...

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

It might also be "a lost in translation" thing for what is a broad term.

In England, an "engineer" is the guy who fixes your car- not like in the new world where an engineer is a licensed professional who stamps a set of technical drawings and certifies that the bridge won't fall down and the airplane's wings won't break off. It kinda depends on which English dialect Mad Max is using.

Somewhere in between, as usually in Russia. Those "engineers" who design the things are different from those who maintain them. In a military use here the "engineer" is, of course, a person who maintains and, more important, bears the responsibility for that. That is why every single-seater, like MiG-29, has its own officer engineer O-2 - this officer takes all responsibility for the plane's readiness. He may or may not use the other sources (if he does, he may be evaluated low), but all charge is on him. The pilot takes the airpale from him and sign it knowing for sure who will be blamed if something is broken or out of commission at this very moment. Imagine the Russian enlisted man in this position - a conscript 100% leaving at the end of 1-year mandatory term - how the Air Force or the NavAir can trust him, what does he know about his job?
Multiengined crewed airplanes are maintaining by the ground crew lead by the officer (O-4 for Bears and Backfires) which has no relation to an airplane crew's flight engineer (O-3 on a Bears). Generally, in a Soviet time 2/3 of an officers in Soviet Air Force were ground engineers, making the proverb that "airplanes exist to maintain from January to August, and then pilots can fly them up to a new Year, if they wish, but no longer"

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

What % of Russian officers get wrenches?

O-1 to O-2 - all of them, 100%. Those who are "engineers" - on a daily basis up to O-4, including the leading engineer of a squadron. The Chief Engineer of the air regiment (O-5) usually doesn't but during summer time when plenty of his subordinates are on leave, it happenes to him too.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Most of our aircraft systems experts are 20 something E5 and E6.

Nice. Whether it means they have about 5 years of experience and more? It explains a lot. Here the enlisted people are sticking with the services very seldom after the end of a mandatory year of conscription (2 years for all aviation in a Soviet time). How much an average person after high school can learn about airplanes during two years, let alone nowadays one year?

 

[Judge Q]

O-1 to O-2 - all of them, 100%. Those who are "engineers" - on a daily basis up to O-4, including the leading engineer of a squadron. The Chief Engineer of the air regiment (O-5) usually doesn't but during summer time when plenty of his subordinates are on leave, it happenes to him too.

Ahhh, the sweet sweet smell of communism.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Ahhh, the sweet sweet smell of communism

Yeah. Those shitty habits are die hard... And with this new armament race Mr. Putin for who knows why started last week it will take a lot more to change something...

 

[markkyle66]

Most any SQDN has a place for newly commissioned AMDOs. They are typically assigned to the Material Control work center, and become the acting Material Control Officer. It's generally the first stop, or seat, you get experience in... as it gives you visibility on the inner mechanisms of what makes the Squadron go (i.e. $). That and because it is one of the smaller work centers with a few NAMP programs.

In that role, they generally over see several key programs: Operating Target (OPTAR) Funds management and up line Budget OPTAR reporting, working requisitions impacting readiness (i.e. validating NMCS/PMCS report), providing oversight of HAZMAT programs, providing Support Equipment accountability (managing the IMRL allowance), managing the GOV purchase card program, Flight Packet content accountability, etc.

 

[Brett327]

Acting MCO?

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Most any SQDN has a place for newly commissioned AMDOs.

Thanks, that is the answer. Here in Russia it is unbelievable to imagine any squadron without several AMDO-equivalent officers. Hell, the job that is called "plane captain" in USN, here is performing by JO engineers with tech degree. Maybe due to unreliability of Russian engines and systems, I think. Those JOs are turning wrenches on a daily basis...

 

[Pags]

Thanks, that is the answer. Here in Russia it is unbelievable to imagine any squadron without several AMDO-equivalent officers. Hell, the job that is called "plane captain" in USN, here is performing by JO engineers with tech degree. Maybe due to unreliability of Russian engines and systems, I think. Those JOs are turning wrenches on a daily basis...

Something you seem to miss in the American philosophy of design is that we design our systems to NOT need engineers in their day to day operations. American AMDOs are NOT engineers, they're managers.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Yeah, the Grand Canyon between...

 

[MIDNJAC]

I wonder if the distinction of various "engineers" Max is referring to might be a similar comparison to a BS in "Engineering science" vs an actual BS in Engineering.......or maybe even further, a comparison between an engineering degree from a 4 year accredited institution, and an Associates degree from a community college. I could see the latter being closer to what he might be talking about, and I think that is probably in line with the professional school/training our mx Sailors get, combined with several years of OJT.........at least from a technical understanding of a system or systems, which doesn't require theoretical understanding of applied science/physics/etc.