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WHICH Brown Shoe?

ChuckM

Active Member
pilot
That's fair. They are not what they were ~20 years ago. But they're a healthy mid-price-point option vs AE. I'd say they've struck a balance between quality and price. It seems the more traditional the style, the closer the quality to the days of old.

FWIW, The ones I've purchased have held up very well.
 
View attachment 17018 View attachment 17019 View attachment 17020 I'm very late to this party, but my brown Bates fell apart on me and I took them to simoneaux boot and shoe repair (In Pensacola) asked for wooden heel and leather sole and a week or so later I had these. This was back in early 2016. They also did a pair of dress whites for me. It was around 100 dollars, I believe I had them do a rush order though.
That looks terrific, man. The squeak of these Lites soles is annoying and their flimsy build is getting chunked up at the toe, perhaps I'll check them out. Unfortunately I've been told that Bates are the only allowed shoe according to the API powers-that-be per the reg 3501.54,

"Correct Wear/ Keep well shined and in good repair. Lace shoes from inside out through all eyelets and tie/...Navy certified brown leather shoes and khaki socks are optional for personnel E-7 and above with khaki uniforms."​

Navy certified meaning Bates. Bates has gotten such a bad rap for their Lites that the NEX now has signs stating that Bates' soles are only approved for 36 months...just in time to start wearing them again after dumping them for some nice Navy Stockless Belleville flight boots. What a joke.

Aside from that, NASP recently had a fleet fly-in with most of the communities giving a briefing to anyone that had to or wanted to show up to the auditorium, plus a chance afterwards to walk in and around their aircraft which was awesome, and while some pilots and FOs wore the Bellevilles a lot of them also had another brown boot. They looked nice and classically styled but I was too busy drooling over the big metal birds to ask about the boots. Does anyone know what those boots could be?
 
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Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
That looks terrific, man. The squeak of these Lites soles is annoying and their flimsy build is getting chunked up at the toe, perhaps I'll check them out. Unfortunately I've been told that Bates are the only allowed shoe according to the API powers-that-be per the reg 3501.54,

"Correct Wear/ Keep well shined and in good repair. Lace shoes from inside out through all eyelets and tie/...Navy certified brown leather shoes and khaki socks are optional for personnel E-7 and above with khaki uniforms."​
https://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-...ulations/uniformcomponents/Pages/3501_54.aspx

Doesn't mention anything about Bates. If somebody in the chain of command is actually telling you guys that Bates is the only acceptable brand of shoe, then I have a couple thoughts on that:

It kinda screws you over a bit and being an API ENS isn't really the place to make a stand. I'd say just ignore it and find a perfectly good, plain brown Oxford shoe made by one of the other brands mentioned in this thread and then play dumb if you got called out for it.

If they're actually saying that, rest assured that is a very "black shoe" move. The way it should work in an aviation wardroom is that person would get merciless public mockery for pulling made up rules out of their butt. People like that are a good case for bringing hazing back. But for now you guys ought to focus on studying for aero, engines, weather, and so on.



In the meantime, at least this link is amusing: https://www.facebook.com/Bates-Is-Screwing-Us-737547259617134/
 
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I appreciate the sentiment, Sir. Like you said it really isn't a hill worth dying on, and being an ENS it's very easy to play dumb. Often it isn't even playing!

I'll get back to looking at thunderstorms now.
 

Hopeful Hoya

Well-Known Member
Contributor
I got the same line when I went through when one of the instructors noticed my Allen Edmonds. Bought a pair of Bates to get me through API and then started wearing the AEs again and haven’t heard anything since.

There are a lot of dumb API-isms and once you get to Primary you’ll find out that IPs are more concerned with how well you know the material and how (un)likely you are to kill them in the plane...
 

Pags

Well-Known Member
pilot
API, flight school, the FRS, and nugget period is a time to be the grey man. When you get some quals and experience you can start to let your freak flag fly. How freaky you get is dependent on your command climate; if you know your CO has strong feelings about things like uniform regs than it's probably not a hill to die on. If you have a CO who wears orange flight suits and red wings or has a uniform closet that looks like an army/navy store then you can maybe be a bit more free.
 

sickboy

Active Member
pilot
I got the same line when I went through when one of the instructors noticed my Allen Edmonds. Bought a pair of Bates to get me through API and then started wearing the AEs again and haven’t heard anything since.

There are a lot of dumb API-isms and once you get to Primary you’ll find out that IPs are more concerned with how well you know the material and how (un)likely you are to kill them in the plane...

Your onwing should be ashamed of himself.
 
I would personally have more respect for an ENS who cared enough to buy shoes that 1.) are not a FOD hazard and 2.) will last longer than one khaki season.

Bates suck, and it's not written anywhere that you *shall* use Bates.

Red Wings on the other hand... not authorized (at least not until squadron AMI is complete). ;)
 
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