Not to sound salty or anything like that, but has the ASTB significantly changed format/difficulty in the past 8 years? When I was a MIDN, they didnt' even tell us much of anything about the test before we we took it. One day, they gave us the address of the local recruiter that administered the test and said go take it. I think there may have been an old study guide that just had the crazy pictures in it, but that was all we did. I never even heard of anybody failing it or sweating it. Do people fail it regularly? Is it somehow harder than back then? It seems like some of the posts on here are preparing like this was the ATP or something.
Not any harder. Higher scores are needed to be competitive these days, especially for OCS and BDCP types. And if you think about it, the wannabes you hear from on AW are pretty damned motivated or they wouldn't be here. So it stands to reason they will be a bit nervous and take the time to prepare and gouge up.
I'll echo wink about the guys looking to prepare here. I'm sure most of them took prep courses for the SAT, ACT, etc., too. Some people just have to study and prepare. I decided to sign up for the ASTB just a few days before the actual test. I figured that it would be good to have "just in case" I wanted to do something aviation related.
When I went in for the initial meeting at NRD Boston (after me cold-calling them, and being asked "can you get here today?") I took a test I later found out to be the ASTB. No studying, just did it. Remember guys, its APTITUDE, not a memory test. Gaming the system just jacks up the scores, which defeats the purpose of the test to a point. Although, I will admit I did have a most excellent recruiter. I knew nothing about OCS, BDCP, etc.. And he looked at my major/scores/gpa and worked his ass off to get me in the program that was the most advantageous to me. I pretty much just filled out the app, got LORs, and passed the PRT. He did the rest. If I ever cross paths with him again, I will get the man a beer or 10, because my ignorant ass at the time did not realize HOW good of a recruiter I had.
I didn't realize they used the scores as selection criteria. At USNA it was explained to us as just having to meet the minimums. As far as I know our ASTB scores didn't affect service selection, only if you didn't get the minimum. Has it always been used as selection criteria for OCS/BDCP?
For ROTC (at least 10 years ago) they were part of the overall service selection package that was submitted, both electronically and in paper form. Good scores helped, but it wasn't the end all thing at the time as most guys got Aviation if they asked for it and were qualified. Sounds like it was slightly more important that USNA, but only slightly.
Always. The competitive score for any OCS/BDCP program has gone up and down over the years as supply and demand dictated. I first went to recruiting in 1984. In all these years the competitive astb has never been as low as the minimum astb score promulgated in the program authorization, never.
Hmm...my recruiter gave me four days and told me to find what I could online about the ASTB. I didn't really know it was a big deal either until I stumbled on this website a day before taking the test. I wouldn't say gouging up is necessarily gaming the system, it's just knowing what to expect. A lot of time would be wasted on figuring out what the questions meant if we didn't have practice tests. I know Spatial Apperception would not have made sense...
Today I believe it's the single largest factor in the service selection formula for SNA/SNFO applicants. I think OAR and PFAR/FOFAR make up about 40% of one's total score.
I have run into a couple guys I recruited. In one case I was at Fallon with the active squadron I was going to augment if called up for Desert Storm. Here we are in the 30 degree dive pattern dropping 500 pounders when my pilot announces that he still had my card in his wallet (he kept it as a good luck charm). Turns out I recruited him and didn't remember, only knew him that day by his call sign. He was just out of the RAG. He didn't buy me beers (the airline pilot reservists bought most of the beer) but he did a fine job of not killing me. Another guy that I recruited as a NFO later became an Intel guy and we remain good firends to this day.
Very cool Wink. My recruiter ended up dying Christmas Day 1986 when he fell in his garage into the fuselage frame working on his Christen Eagle! Broke his neck we were told. How's that for weird ! He was OIC of the Indianapolis District and had taken me on my T-34B intro ride only a couple months before. To avoid the total threadjack..... He called me the Friday morning at the end of finals week at 0700 and said come take the test at 1000. Staggered over to the student center took the test, submitted two LOR's from professors and was accepted March 85. A little over a year before I got commissioned out of AOCS.
So, it sounds like my suspicions were right and people are definitely freaking out way too much about this test?
Guys do flunk it out right, that is not make the absolute mins. Many more simply do not cut a competitive score for the program they want the first time around. I'd say in my market about 50-65% didn't make a competitive score the first time. Of course that is a moving target over the years. And about 15-20 % just bomb it. Is freaking out appropriate, no. Taking it seriously, yes. Remember, I am talking all sorts of people with varied educations and at different points in their education. USNA guys were pretty good students going into the Academy, and completed a rigorous program that included lots of math and physics, even if a Poli Sci major, before they take the astb. And then, apparently, they are told it doesn't mean too much. That takes the pressure off considerably.
Are not people supposed to fail it? If nobody ever failed it, it wouldn't be a useful gauge as to whether somebody was meant to be in the aviation field, right? Just like teaching to the standardized test, it seems if you learn how to beat the test instead of having the ability that it is measuring, you are just setting yourself up for failure later. Sorry, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't some new test.
You have a point. The guys at NAMI keep very good stats on test scores vs attrites along with other data to validate the astb.
I have been told by several individuals that our ASTB scores (NROTC Mid here) are a check box. As in we just need to pass. Passing with a 9/9/9 is no better than 4/5/4. That may change from FY to FY depending on the number of Mids expecting to apply for 13xx. But for this year we have been told "all you have to do is pass".
I think that would only be in the event that there were more flight spots available than applied for. AQR + PFAR/FOFAR is 40% of the total service selection score.
We may be receiving this guidance based on the fact that our unit commissions at the VERY most 6 officers a semester, and its usually less than that. I know that our Nuke quota for this year was exactly 0. I figure that may have something to do with the ease of getting a 13xx slot here at UNM.
I am wondering where you got that number. In my experience the relative weight of the various parts of a person's application is a heck of a lot more squishy then you state here. There is no magic formula. If a guy doesn't do so well on the astb he can make up for it in other areas.
i don't know if he got it from here, but the formula in this thread also says 40% is the ASTB (25%+15%). http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10620
When I took it, I read the gouge here and used Arco. But what helped me the most on the test was having taken plenty of math and having taken physics + engineering mechanics. That's all you really have to do to prepare--that and learn the basics of ship and airplane operation from the internet. For what it's worth, my recruiter says that the ASTB has a lot to do with whether a candidate will be accepted.
It does. There is a very strong correlation to astb performance and OCS graduation and flight school performance. But I don't recall a formula ever being published by CRUITCOM weighting the astb relative to the other details of an application. The reason is that although a high astb may indicate that an applicant will likely graduate OCS and not attrite flight school, the same can be determined other ways. A prior enlisted guy is not as likely to attrite from OCS because he knows what he is getting into, it isn't foreign. And someone with a technical degree and certain work experiences may be very likely to get through flight training. The whole formula thing really smacks of the Air Farce. I think the board is willing to make gut calls. Otherwise they would just plug the numbers into a computer and read the results.
