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What deficit reduction looks like..?

Brett327

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#2
The way I look at it, everyone is going to be fighting for their piece of a shrinking defense budget. Cuts will come somewhere, but if "we" don't fight tooth and nail for our pet programs, we risk being run over by those who are.
 

Uncle Fester

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#3
I'm starting to wonder if a lot of the budget cuts DoD offered up aren't in the "crazy like a fox" category. The Air Force in particular. "Okay, okay, Senator, if you insist, we'll keep our Block 30 Global Hawks and all those bases... We tried to do our bit for defecit reduction."
 

BackOrdered

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#4
I'm starting to wonder if a lot of the budget cuts DoD offered up aren't in the "crazy like a fox" category. The Air Force in particular. "Okay, okay, Senator, if you insist, we'll keep our Block 30 Global Hawks and all those bases... We tried to do our bit for defecit reduction."
Shhhhhhh

But seriously, good point.
 

Fog

Old RIOs never die: They just can't fast-erect
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#5
We could easily reduce our Army/AF presence in Europe by 50% without hurting our overall defense posture. Most of it was created to counter the Cold War efforts of the Soviet Bloc USSR which is anything but a bloc nowadays. Our NATO partners have underspent on their own defense needs for 60+ years. It's high time we allow them to fend for themselves on regional defense. JMHO.
 

Uncle Fester

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#6
I don't think anyone seriously thinks we're in Europe to keep an eye on the Fulda Gap any more, but keeping forces there has its uses. How many casualties are flown from the Sandbox to Landstuhl (as opposed to an extra 10-ish hours to get them back Stateside)? And I don't think we're homeporting four surface shooters in Rota for the balmy climate.

Pivot to Asia or no, we still have national interests in the Med and Middle East...may as well take advantage of the proximity and infrastructure (political and logistical) that Europe offers.
 

helolumpy

Region staff is the 7th level of hell!
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#7

Fog

Old RIOs never die: They just can't fast-erect
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#8
I don't think anyone seriously thinks we're in Europe to keep an eye on the Fulda Gap any more, but keeping forces there has its uses. How many casualties are flown from the Sandbox to Landstuhl (as opposed to an extra 10-ish hours to get them back Stateside)? And I don't think we're homeporting four surface shooters in Rota for the balmy climate.

Pivot to Asia or no, we still have national interests in the Med and Middle East...may as well take advantage of the proximity and infrastructure (political and logistical) that Europe offers.
Geez, UF, do we need 50,000 soldiers & airmen to accomplish that? We have the entire 3rd AF HQ'ed in Europe as well as USA Europe which has 4 major combat brigades in Europe. IMHO, we could bring half those folks home tomorrow & still do everything we are currently tasked. If we want to cut total defense spending without killing our forces, we have to do some of this stuff. What rumours of wars are you seeing in Europe nowadays?
 

Brett327

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#9
Geez, UF, do we need 50,000 soldiers & airmen to accomplish that? We have the entire 3rd AF HQ'ed in Europe as well as USA Europe which has 4 major combat brigades in Europe. IMHO, we could bring half those folks home tomorrow & still do everything we are currently tasked. If we want to cut total defense spending without killing our forces, we have to do some of this stuff. What rumours of wars are you seeing in Europe nowadays?
OK then, why not pair down our CSGs to 6 vice 11?
 

statesman

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#10
I would argue Mobility. The carriers dont only protect one area, they have the potential to be almost anywhere. Besides I dont think Fog is saying we get rid of those forces, we just get them out of Europe.
 

Fog

Old RIOs never die: They just can't fast-erect
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#11
Brett: I thought you are the smart one, War College & all. I wasn't suggesting that we eliminate those forces, just bring them home (that's the USA) as Statesman reiterated. It's much cheaper to keep those forces at existing stateside bases than to deploy them & their families to Europe, FCOL. Carrier Air Groups have NOTHING to do w/ that argument, and, yes, they're mobile.
 

Hotdogs

Leeroy Jenkins
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#12
Brett: I thought you are the smart one, War College & all. I wasn't suggesting that we eliminate those forces, just bring them home (that's the USA) as Statesman reiterated. It's much cheaper to keep those forces at existing stateside bases than to deploy them & their families to Europe, FCOL. Carrier Air Groups have NOTHING to do w/ that argument, and, yes, they're mobile.
Most of what is being discussed about here is already happening.

The bulk of forces left there will be part of the 21st TSC, a signal command, and the regional medical command. So it's getting smaller. I'd say 2 BCTs is about right considering all the stuff that be going on lately in the med.
 

Brett327

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#13
Brett: I thought you are the smart one, War College & all. I wasn't suggesting that we eliminate those forces, just bring them home (that's the USA) as Statesman reiterated. It's much cheaper to keep those forces at existing stateside bases than to deploy them & their families to Europe, FCOL. Carrier Air Groups have NOTHING to do w/ that argument, and, yes, they're mobile.
I dunno, FOG, what's your point? Are "forces" in CONUS worth as much as those who are forward deployed? Might there be a reason why the National Command Authority places value in forward deployed forces? There are an enormous number of moving parts involved in moving and sustaining any fighting force. We dont'stage the vast majority of our nation's combat forces in places like Korea, Japan and Europe on a whim. Resorting to an "enclave America" stratgey puts us way behind timeline for any CONOPS that requires significant combat power.

What's your strategy, FOG?
 

Fog

Old RIOs never die: They just can't fast-erect
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#14
(a) Europe ain't as dangerous as it was 25 years ago, (b) bringing 50% of Army/AF commands currently deployed to Europe (w/ their families) back to the USA will save several $BN/yr, and (c) our european allies need to begin paying for their own defense. Want more?
 

Uncle Fester

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#15
Because those forces aren't there to defend Europe. They're there because it's closer to the Sandbox.

I think we're bringing pretty much all our forces in Europe home anyway, but for money reasons than because we don't need them there.