Want to fly USMC, but need waiver (loonnnggg story with OSO and MEPS)

Questions from former AFROTC trying to get USMC Air Contract

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum and thought I'd start out saying hello. I don't know anyone around here and hope to get some help. I have some questions that my OSO hasn't helped answer.

First off, I did a year with the AFROTC (bad idea). Air Force wasn't my thing and originally wanted Marines but the OSO around here wasn't very helpful my first time showing interest.

Anyways, I'm a sophomore and trying to apply for an air contract. Haven't taken the ASTB yet but am trying to study.

I have some questions.

1. Flight physicals. In the AF you get a pilot slot your 3rd year as a cadet and get sent off to get a FC1 at Brooks. I see a lot of people get that far and get DQ'd for stuff they had no clue about from the beginning.
*When does PLC applicants go for a flight physical?
*Will they have you do it before taking the ASTB or after?
*Will you do another flight physical after TBS before Pensicola?

2. TBS. Has anybody ever heard of someone passing OCS but failing TBS? If so, what happens to them since they've already commissioned?

3. ASTB. I have an Arco that's gotta Naval/Marines aviation section that I've been looking over. Does anybody else have any better suggestions for other study material?

4. High school diploma. I went to a private school from junior high till my senior year. Senior year the school lost (yes, lost) some of my credits and said I wouldn't graduate. The principle refused to fix the situation and so I tried to transfer to a public HS and was told my credits wouldn't be accepted. I was forced to get a GED. I passed and have done well in college since. Will this hurt me?



If you've read this whole thing, thanks for your time. If you can answer the questions above, thanks again. I really appreciate it!

-BINGO

Regarding number 4, that sounds like something that could be explained in the comments section of your application (assuming the Marines have a section similar to the one the Navy has). Additionally, I would get a recommendation letter from somebody in your high school telling them you are a stand up guy/gal.

1. You generally get your flight physical before you contract (ie You don't get your air contract unless you're physically qualified). I had my flight physical after I had taken the ASTB. Reason being - why spend more money on you to get a physical if you're not, qualified. It's cheaper to have someone take a test than send them to a doctor. I haven't been there yet, but I believe you'll get another physical prior to checking into API.

2. Yes, you can fail TBS. They will either recycle you to another class or admin separate you, depending on the circumstances. All in all, you have to have really screwed up to attrite out of TBS, otherwise they'll push you through again until you get it right.

3. Read the gouge in the ASTB section here.

4. Not if you explain your situation.

My $0.02. Your mileage may vary.

You have to be a world class buffoon (or criminal) to fail out of TBS. TBS is really hard to be number 1, but almost equally hard to fail out of completely. Don't stress out over that. Attrition at TBS is probably measured in the tenths of a percent. OCS......not so much. If you aren't going to hack it, OCS will find out.

Good luck.

There have been a lot of these threads lately all with similiar questions. I'm wondering if combining them into one big "stupid questions that I should use the search button for but am too lazy" thead is a good idea. Any takers?

Or delete them, as each stupid thread clogging the system diminishes the usefullness of the search engine.

Funny enough, I have had almost the exact situation. I went to a private school, had to transfer, and messed it all up. I got a GED, took 18 hours of community college, took the calculus, engineering physics,and was excepted into the engineering program. Cake... I was really worried about it at first, then my recruiter told me its not a big deal. think about it, why would your high school diploma matter when you have a 4 year degree? But I would say it's circumstantial, what were your grades like in private school, did you drop because your a bum, play sports... these are all questions I was asked. Prove yourself in college, I have about 63 hours, finals just ended and I expect a 3.2gpa (from a 2.8), my recruiter said get it above a 3.0 and I have a shot, so I am praying for the best. If you show them you have the aptitude and attitude, things will work out. Try not to sweat the GED much, I had plenty of sleep less nights b/c of it. hope this helps, good luck

We fellow engineers ken tel.

Please stop.

not getting it? insults? I assume they are...

Not entirely correct. Really depends on what your applying for. PLC-C and OCC all take their flight physicals before they contract. PLC JR/SR will take their flight physicals after they complete seniors but before they commission.

Thats not to say that you wont do some additional medical work (Cyclo, anthro) in addition to your MEPs medical, but none of this is done with a bonafide flight surgeon.

Im not sure how much I agree with this method considering that Im hearing of a lot of Candidates getting their commisioning dates pushed back lately because their flight physical clearance hasnt gone through in time.

accept and except are different words

your and you're are different words

its ok im not using punctuation or capitals today either

hahaha, man I feel stupid.

I stand corrected.

I doubt it. An active member here flew in the Navy with just a GED, no college degree. He was a prior and the program he was in has now changed, but as long as you are doing well now all you would probably get is a shoulder shrug when you mention it.

My brother left after 3 years in highschool after being accepted early to college for undergrad AND grad school combined program. His highschool (a private school that didn't want to be gipped that last year of tuition) refused to give him a diploma, even though, with all the AP courses he was in, he was far above minimum graduation requirements. So he double checked with his college, left highschool and got his degree. He turned down going to grad school after undergrad, as his desires changed, but he is now working on his MBA, finishing this year.

He is an engineer and soon to be MBA.....and a highschool dropout. Not even a GED. It REALLY keeps him up at nights....

Not that this applies to the Navy, but just an example of how stranger things have happened.

Physics 1 text book, basic algebra skillz, basic naval terminology (i.e. the sailor red left for port)

get it?

Huh? That's way harder to remember than port wine is red.

Wait, what is "red right return?"

Nun Buoys!

(Look, I retained something from my ASTB studying!)

Thank you to everyone that responded. I turn in my rough application on Tuesday and am applying for OCC (summer OCS 2009).

Fair warning to those applying and going through MEPS.

I'll make it short and simple.

I used Prozac for STRESS ( not diagnosed depression/anxiety ), no longer than 4 months. I was told by my recruiter to lie at MEPS and say nothing about it.

I made it through MEPS and didn't say anything. I went home that night and didn't feel right about my decision to hide information that would hang over me in the future. So I called my OSO recruiter the next morning and told him I wanted to be honest and do the right thing. Sure enough, I was disqualified and even NOMI said no without even giving me a psych eval.

Funny thing is, I've been passed by the Air Force for ROTC because I got a psych eval and showed them I'm not some person with mental disorders. I'm a great student, physically fit, have done a over a year in ROTC and do well. I do still want to be a Marine more than anything, but unless somebody decides to get the facts straight and help me out, I'm gonna have to stick with the Air Force.

I know that many would of told me to keep my mouth shut, but to me that doesn't sit well inside. Integrity starts at the door.

If anybody knows of a better solution to still persue this obstacle, I would appreciate it.

-BINGO

Hey Guys,

Thanks for reading. Sorry for the long post, but I think it's better you know the details to help me out.

I'll say a little bit about myself before telling my story.

I'm currently a junior in college going for a BS in Political Science. I originally wanted to go Marines, but due to the lack of help here at my OSO I went and did almost 2 years with the AFROTC instead, which I knew wasn't for me. I ended up leaving the program for a bad grade and know not being in the AF is best for me.

Now comes the part with the Marines. I decided to try applying again my last year in AFROTC to hopefully turn over to a air contract via PLC combined (10 week side error).

Things were going smoothly at first. My recruiter was a helo driver and seemed to be interested in helping me. I'm in great physical condition, have been climbing competitively for years, lift daily, and run well. I have to work hard in school, but I can do well when I put my mind to it.

Anyways, time comes for MEPS and he asks me if I had any problems getting qualified with the Air Force. I told him I went through DoDmerb and ended up having to wait a year for a waiver (which passed). I told him it was for mental medication when I was younger.
My case is special because of the events in my life that took place. I was young (15), going through a lot of family problems as well as personal issues. Growing up around a mother who brought childhood issues into the home is hard to deal with. The medication was Zoloft mainly (taken for no more 4 or 5 months) and didn't feel any difference aside from feeling sleepy all the time. Along with the Zoloft I was given samples by the doctor that had written prescriptions if I liked the drug. I never ended up using them, but the service still see's that on my records.
When I turned 21 I had another downfall in my life that I didn't take well. I was with a girl for almost 3 years that cheated on me and the break up ended badly. What did I decide to do? I found a counselor to talk to and work through it with. While at the counseling center, across the hall is a nurse practitioner that prescribed me Prozac and Abilify to handle the stress. I didn't take the Abilify, but I did use the Prozac for 4 months. The medication did nothing but make me tired.
Well, when I presented this information to my local OSO, I was told DIRECTLY by my recruiter (an officer) and his enlisted members to keep my mouth shut about it all if I wanted to ever pass. They had me actually sit down and physically practice what I was going to do when I got to MEPS. I was told I had nothing to worry about and that the service would never find out.
The day came for MEPS and I made it through. My eyes were perfect, along with everything else... But I lied about the medication and went against my integrity. I went to the officer afterwards and was told to not worry about it and that we'd be onto the next step.
That night I came home and spoke with my parents about it. I knew it was better to come clean and go the right way then to make it through and have that hanging over me while I was being a leader that's expected to promote integrity.
I called my recruiter the next day to let him know I wanted to come clean with MEPS and he tried to talk me out of it by saying they'd never find out and even down the road when getting a security clearance, they'd still never find out. I told him I wanted to do the right thing and he replied with, You realize this is going to cost you your slot? If you don't get a waiver, it's over.
I told him I understood.
A few days later he calls me to tell me I was disqualified by MEPS and their was nothing he could do. I ask him to send for a waiver at BUMED and so he does.
Weeks later I get a call from him saying BUMED DQ'd me and won't grant me a waiver for a history of bipolar disorder (which I've NEVER been diagnosed with) and that theirs nothing he can do. I tell him I can get extra letters from other doctors to show I've never been diagnosed with anything besides stress brought on by situations. He agree's and says, Sure get those letters and we'll push them to BUMED.
So, I take the initiative to go to the center that prescribed me the medication and both the counselor AND the NP got together and wrote a strong letter of recommendation to request me a waiver. The letter included a professional medical diagnosis of stress and NOT bipolar disorder or anything else.
I take this letter to my recruiter and he tells me he's done helping me and that there is nothing he can do for me. All after he tells me to get the proper paper work. He tells me to give up and never call back. He says, call another OSO in another state and apply through them, but don't tell them what happened here. Good luck, and then hung up.
Time goes by and another Captain comes on board to start learning the ropes to take over for earlier said Captain.
Another buddy of mine is going through the same OSO and tells me how great this other guy is and that I should try him.
I get his number and leave him a message. A few days pass by and I get nothing in return. So I call the office and ask for him. He picks up and says, Cpt. ------- told me about you and I agree with him. I'm not going to help you get a waiver. I ask him why. He says, Because theres a line of guys at the door who don't need waivers and I can push them through faster without having to do any paperwork. Do not call me again, give up and do something else.
The story goes on...

I decide to get a hold of BUMED myself. A very nervy thing to do, but I knew I had no other options. After speaking with other Marine pilots and officers that told me to keep pushing and not give up, I did it. After going through the internet for hours I found the number for the director of the BUMED board who signed my DQ waiver form. He answers the phone and asks me how I got his number. I go onto to explain to him my story and determination to be a Marine officer for this country. He agree's that I'm determined and goes onto explain how looking through my paperwork, him and his board made a mistake and will re-evaluate my paper work and call me back that day.

I get a call back within the hour and he says, Me and my team reviewed your packet and cannot give you a waiver until you give us those notes from your doctor, but give them to your recruiter and have him push those to us and I will do my best to get you a waiver. I will also type up a personal note to leave on top of your packet explaining that we've talked and that we will wait for your waiver. Good luck to you and I hope it works out.

Later that day I get a call from the first recruiter (Captain) and he's furious that I called BUMED because BUMED contacted him asking what happened with my case. I explained to him that I had no other options because my OSO wouldn't go to bat for me anymore. Not only that, I contacted other OSO's and was denied help because they can only help seniors that are applying OCC. However, All of them said they've heard of issues happening at this particular OSO and to not give up.

So here I am today, still wanting more than anything to be a Marine Officer/Pilot. It's what I work for every single day of my life. The problems I had earlier in my life were all because of a bad attitude and outlook on life. I didn't need medication, I needed to stop being a pussy and making excuses for my situations. I have come a huge distance and am completely dedicated in all that I do. I work hard in school, stay physically fit, have maintained a healthy relationship with a great woman for the last 3 years. While in ROTC I always pushed to exceed everyones expectations, and take care of my people with sincerity and integrity. I knew everyday that was I was doing was right and that the military was my place to be.

In close of this, what would you guys recommend I do? I'm sorry this letter has taken up your time, but I'm really at a dead end here. I have buddies leaving in just a matter of days to OCS and it hurts to see them go when they all want me there by their side when they commission. I'm willing to do anything and have shown that I have the perseverance to keep moving.

Thank you all so much for reading this. I look forward to constructive responses.

-BINGO