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Vet returns to NKorea for 1st Black Navy Pilot

voodooqueen

DAR Lapsarian
I hope everything goes well and they are able to find him. I would hope that the Koreans would respect that kind of honor.
 

BusyBee604

St. Francis/Hugh Hefner Combo!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
I think CAPT Hudner's is the most badass Medal of Honor story in Naval Aviation.
They are ALL equally badass. With all due respect to your opinion, at the MOH level... I would never want to quantify the "badassedness" of any one recipient more or less over another. They are all a precious & historic group of true American heroes!:D
BzB
 

xj220

Will fly for food.
pilot
Contributor
CAPT Hudner has some serious brass ones, not only for what he originally did, but for going back during their "anti-American" period. That's dedication and I wish him the best of luck in his search. Hopefully they can find ENS Brown's remains and bring him home, without too much red tape.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
So, how do you think your chain of command would react if you crash landed your aircraft to aid another with no plan for escape? Not criticizing Capt. Hudner in the least. Just pointing out how times have changed.
 

BusyBee604

St. Francis/Hugh Hefner Combo!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
So, how do you think your chain of command would react if you crash landed your aircraft to aid another with no plan for escape? Not criticizing Capt. Hudner in the least. Just pointing out how times have changed.
Maybe not in today's Navy... but back in the Viet era, I believe our COC wouldn't have minded (if we had been flying Spads), but unlike props, the jets did not fare well when ditched. I wonder what was Hudner going to do if he had gotten LT Brown free of the cockpit? Try to take off from the mountainside with Brown 'piggyback' in the cockpit? Was his Spad flyable after the crash landing? Or just to free & carry Brown back to the helo and both RTB the carrier? Gutsy try either way!:)
BzB
 

armada1651

Hey intern, get me a Campari!
pilot
Maybe not in today's Navy... but back in the Viet era, I believe our COC wouldn't have minded (if we had been flying Spads), but unlike props, the jets did not fare well when ditched. I wonder what was Hudner going to do if he had gotten LT Brown free of the cockpit? Try to take off from the mountainside with Brown 'piggyback' in the cockpit? Was his Spad flyable after the crash landing? Or just to free & carry Brown back to the helo and both RTB the carrier? Gutsy try either way!:)
BzB

From my understanding of the story (based on the account in "Such Men As These"), Hudner fully expected a helo to be on its way shortly (which it was) and brought his plane down to help Brown escape the cockpit before it was engulfed in flames. He was flying a Corsair, and I'm sure it was not remotely flyable after the landing - although the radio still worked, which allowed him to get a message out for the RV to bring a fire axe to help free Brown from his cockpit. Brown's radio may have worked but due to the nature of the damage to his Corsair, they elected to leave the battery off to prevent igniting spilled fuel.
 

armada1651

Hey intern, get me a Campari!
pilot
So, how do you think your chain of command would react if you crash landed your aircraft to aid another with no plan for escape? Not criticizing Capt. Hudner in the least. Just pointing out how times have changed.

There was one contemporary skipper - can't remember the squadron other than that it doesn't exist anymore - who ditched a plane on one sortie, bailed out on the next, and brought back a total loss due to flak damage on the third. It wasn't until he lost a fourth aircraft some months later that CAG grounded him. So I think it's safe to say the Navy placed lower value on materiel at the time...probably because it cost considerably less than it does today.
 

BusyBee604

St. Francis/Hugh Hefner Combo!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
From my understanding of the story (based on the account in "Such Men As These"), Hudner fully expected a helo to be on its way shortly (which it was) and brought his plane down to help Brown escape the cockpit before it was engulfed in flames.
That whole scenario brings to mind Chief Forney & crewman bringing his chopper in to pick up LT Brubaker in "Bridges...". At least CAPT Hudner made it back. BTW, On USS MIDWAY in 1971, I stood quite a few OOD underway bridge watches under instruction (and the watchful eye of..), LT Frank Hudner, Asst. NavO, son our MOH hero.:)
BzB
 

707guy

"You can't make this shit up..."
It's a shame that it has taken this long for him to be able to attempt to find ENS Brown. Hope his trip is a successful one.
 

Renegade One

Well-Known Member
None
I have a close friend…retired Navy…who now works within the Joint POW/MIA Accounting Command in Hawaii…a great organization doing the nation's work. Many successes (mostly unheralded) in China, Burma (Myanmar), Laos, the Philippines, Vietnam, and maybe now Korea.
http://www.jpac.pacom.mil
 

armada1651

Hey intern, get me a Campari!
pilot
They are ALL equally badass. With all due respect to your opinion, at the MOH level... I would never want to quantify the "badassedness" of any one recipient more or less over another. They are all a precious & historic group of true American heroes!:D
BzB

Just wanted to say that this is absolutely true. And I probably think the same thing whenever I think about any MoH story...I know I certainly have about Admiral Stockdale.
 

BusyBee604

St. Francis/Hugh Hefner Combo!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Just wanted to say that this is absolutely true. And I probably think the same thing whenever I think about any MoH story...I know I certainly have about Admiral Stockdale.
I also think often about CAPT Mike Estocin, fellow Skyhawk driver, and VA-125 Squadronmate, IP 1962-'65. RIP Mike.
CAPT Estocin-1.jpgCAPT Estocin MOH.gifCAPT Estocin-2.jpg
CAPT Michael J. Estocin KIA 1931-1967
BzB
 
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