That's seems to be the consensus from those who've spent time with the Europeans...USNA guys who had NATO exchange instructors on the YPs say they were far better shiphandlers. Having said that, it might be worth looking at WHY they're better shiphandlers. One reason might be that they break down by specialties. Early on, the SWO/sub guys figure out if they're going to be Engineers, Combat Systems types, or Tactical/Shiphandling types. Only the last bunch are on a CO pipeline. Whereas in our Navy, there was a point when we took non Engineering Officer of the Watch (EOOW) qualified LTs and made them Chief Engineers (CHENG) on CRUDES ships.
Post Collision image 090320-N-9999X-935 PERSIAN GULF (March 20, 2009) The Los Angeles-class attack submarine USS Hartford (SSN 768) is underway Friday, March 20, 2009 in the Persian Gulf after a collision with the amphibious transport dock ship USS New Orleans (LPD 18). Hartford sustained damage to her sail, but the propulsion plant of the nuclear-powered submarine was unaffected by this collision. (U.S. Navy photo)
090320-N-XXXXX-001 PERSIAN GULF (March 20, 2009) The Los Angeles-class attack submarine USS Hartford (SSN 768) is underway in the Persian Gulf after a collision with the amphibious transport dock ship USS New Orleans (LPD 18). Hartford sustained damage to her sail, but the propulsion plant of the nuclear-powered submarine was unaffected by this collision. (U.S. Navy photo/Released)
NEWS FLASH: The USS Hartford is a submarine! We will not discuss its capabilities nor how it may or may not operate in certain theaters that may be politically sensitive. Any more posts that go there will shut this thread down.
The Navy has released official photos of the Hartford coming into port. 090321-N-9909C-848 BAHRAIN (March 21, 2009) The Los Angeles-class attack submarine USS Hartford (SSN 768) pulls into Mina Salman pier in Bahrain where U.S. Navy engineers and inspection teams will asses and evaluate damage that resulted from a collision with the amphibious transport dock ship USS New Orleans (LPD 18) in the Strait of Hormuz March 20. Overall damage to both ships is being evaluated. The incident remains under investigation. Hartford is deployed to the U.S. 5th fleet area of responsibility to support maritime security operations. (U.S. Navy photo by Cmdr. Jane Campbell/Released)
Besides the obvious- check out the crack at the base of the sail that runs along the hull. This definitely could have been worse. Luck was on thier side.
That's what I was thinking. Same way as the Cole. I'm not exactly a sub expert, but that doesn't look like 1st echelon maintenance work.
This really sucks. Mishaps in recent years have done significantly more damage to naval vessels than the enemy.
The PAO they quote is a friend of mine from the Academy who I ran into out there last summer when I was out there.
This should shine a light on what good DC crews can do...that was a shit-ton of damage and they still got it back to port under their own power...good job on those guys for plugging the holes...
I'll direct you towards "The Stupid..." blog which is to submarines what AirWarriors is to aviation, and SailorBob to SWOs. http://bubbleheads.blogspot.com/2009/03/uss-hartford-collides-with-us-amphib.html Carry on...
I had a Royal Navy LTCDR as my safety officer for two summers on YPs at USNA. He thought that it was a combination of their specialization, and the fact that most junior SWOs are trained to simply parrot the commands their CO/XO give them, rather than truly learning how to navigate/handle the ship. He said that his training in the RN had taught him to safely handle situations without constantly needing his CO standing by holding his hand.
I'm pretty sure you and I had the same officer for YP's... awesome guy. I learned a TON about shiphandling from him, not to mention fantastic late night discussions on the bridge.
Please enlighten us.... "There I was, at 12 knots, er, make it 14 knots with line of bearing, decreasing range at 20,000 yds! What to do, what to do?"
Haha, my point was that with such a low speeds (believe me - 13 kts is pushing it on those old YP's nowadays!), getting to discuss cultural differences between our countries and Navies was very easily done. As far as shiphandling goes, we did Divtacs basically all day and got to do some neat things like UNREPS. I'll admit that in terms of actual tactical knowledge, I'm sure it's pretty minimal, but in terms of getting confidence on the bridge, I thought it was great experience.
My record at that range is about 300 knots of closure....I know HJ, you have got to have had more than that at some point in the Tom
Reminds me of an old "Broadside" comic right after Top Gun came out... "Target bears 156 degrees....10,000 yards.... speed 12 knots.....CPA 5000 yards!" Nervous JOOD says "Come on Mav, do some of that SWO stuff"
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2009/04/navy_subcollision_cofired_041409/ The CO of the USS Hartford was just relieved. The article doesn't say exactly what happened but the evidence found was substantial enough for the change. Sounds like the command climate was not what it should have been.
