Discussion in 'Commercial Aviation' started by HAL Pilot, Aug 20, 2008.
Are you gonna lay a bet and give odds on that .... ????
Very well said.
PHX sucks. In fairness, it wasn't really the TSA folks fault, at least at the checkpoint level. I waited in line for an hour and a half at security because they only had 1 line open for several hundred people. The guy working the gate can only work so fast, no matter how stupid his job is.
The airport itself is just generally a clusterfuck.
I'd bet it doesn't happen... I believe he is BDCP for SWO, not aviation... but if somebody wants to bet it does happen, I'll take that game.
My point was the media likes to make shit up and assume crap, so an applicant for SWO becomes an F/A 18 pilot.
I am sure A4s knew that...
My ability to understand what people mean on the internet has really gone down recently... I'm a little worried about myself.
Really? I've flown out of there at least 7 times and only once was I held up by security, normally I wait like 5-15 minutes to go through.
Again, just my experience. Maybe I'm lucky :icon_smil
edit: Why is my sunglasses smiley a devil?
edit: AJB aren't you also the guy who pointed out that the guy at Wal Mart post was faked? You're on a roll
OK, I'll complete the threadjack... I get the same thing sometimes with a few of the emoticons. Not sure why, just too lazy to do anything about it. I suspect it's a line of code somewhere that has bad pointers but again, ain't no biggie. Websan???
Generally speaking, the American traveling public is stupid. Then again, generally speaking, the American public as a whole is stupid. One would HAVE to be stupid to believe the out of breath 350lb shit-head with drool on his collar is doing anyone any good. Is that judgmental? Absolutely. I greatly resent the fact that these morons take themselves so f'ing seriously. They're a joke and until the government is serious about air security and serious enough about it to spend money on it, it'll remain a joke.
I've posted it here before and it still holds true. Until cell phones (or any other transmitting device) are banned from the cabin - you'll never be "safe" from a determined terrorist.
I flew out of Norfolk last year and had quite a bit of time in line to watch the TSA operation there. It took me all of about two minutes to realize that they were pulling every fourth person out of line for further inspection. The girl operating the scanning machine was texting on her cell phone. As luck would have it, I was pulled for further searching. While being patted down I asked for the supervisor and pointed out to him that I had been able to quickly identify the pattern. If I had any malice intent I would have just positioned myself in line so that my bag was only inspected once. Once by the dumbass texting from behind the scanner.
For future reference. Do Not Do This. TSA hates being told they're fucked up. I almost missed my flight because I got to then play twenty questions with more TSA shitheads and local law enforcement.
If they're former military, good thing for us they're "former". I wouldn't allow 95% of the TSA employees I've encountered to handle a set of chocks.
I hadn't posted here in a long time, but this topic drives my blood pressure through the roof.:icon_rage
It was because you didn't take them off first. Remeber, you are exempt and chose not to remove them. The rest of the public must take them off, partially for that reason.
I wasn't present at any of these occurrences and trust you are accurate in your description. Practically all the same has happened to me before, including accidentally taking handgun ammunition through security at DCA and getting away with it. My intention is certainly not to defend any given idiotic or irresponsible act. As a group, however, they deserve the benefit of the doubt. Most are OK.
And what is wrong with giving the impression of security, true or not. Ever hear of someone putting up a "Beware of Dog" sign and they have no dog, or the fake "Patrolled by Vigilant Security" signs in their yards? But of course it isn't just an impression. Though far from perfect they do catch thousands of weapons a year and many very very suspicious articles that are believed to be probes by terrorists. Just because you guys have a TS clearance does not mean you read everything out there. "Need to know" ring a bell with any of you. Tell you what, I since I don't have a TS clearance or access any more, I will not question you guys on anything related to classified military information. In return, you take my word for it. There still is a threat and the TSA is finding evidence of it frequently. Even Deputy Fife caught a bad guy from time to time. The very incompetence of the TSA adds a variable to plannig any terrorist plot against civil aviation. Remember what the Soviets said about the US during the Cold War? It was impossible to plan a military operation against US forces because although we had doctrine, no one followed it.
They spend a shit load of money on it. The issue is where and how you spend the money. We don't need to spend more. We need to spend it more wisely. I am not about to give the feds, let alone TSA, a blank check in the name of anything, even near perfect security.
Join the club.
I think it is stupid to believe that anyone's weight, hair style or grammar has anything to do with how effective they can be at analyzing an X-ray image, IF well trained and supervised. I think it would be stupid to hire only people that can fill out a uniform like a 20 year old boot from Paris Island. If you look at a trim serious but polite young person in a fine uniform with perfect hair and clean shaved chin and assume he knows what he is looking for on your ID or travel documents without any other evidence, then you are stupid. I am very sorry that the fact that some TSA screeners take themselves seriously makes you so angry. Is it ok for them to take themselves seriously, but not run you through secondary screening or pick every fourth guy for secondary, or is it only unacceptable to take themselves seriously when they ask you to take your belt off?
Just for reference, the political pressure to avoid profiling has led many officials to define random as picking out a playing card from deck and then picking people in line that correspond to that number card. Therefor not truly random and not likely the choice of the people you dealt with that day.
"The very incompetence of the TSA adds a variable"
Seriously? (insert high pitched sarcastic tone)
The TS clearance has got nothing to do with this conversation. Its a matter of common sense. Is TSA trying their best? Sure. So is my dog, but he still shit in the house this morning. The Govt must demand MORE of its money. If you bought an appliance and it worked as poorly as the TSA you'd want a refund wouldn't you?
I certainly didn't intend to imply MORE money needed to be spent. MORE needs to be demanded of the money being spent.
To your point about appearance. Its a matter of professionalism. Never did anything I write imply that a sharply dressed individual knows his job better than a slob. But if these people want to be treated with more respect and be questioned less, a professional appearance sure a'int a bad place to start. For the record the woman texting from behind the scanner in Norfolk was not "out of breath", "350lbs", nor did she "have drool on her collar." She was thin and neatly dressed. I suppose I'm still stupid though?
All too quickly I'm reminded why I "left" the forum for so long.
The last time I was at PHX, I sat next to a lady who was with her 15 year old daughter, and 17 year old son. Nobody looked very happy, especially the son. He was clearly in a lot of trouble with his Mom. We were all there to drop off our underage children (my 9 year old and her 15 year old), so Junior, the Mom, and me were all stuck waiting for the plane to actually take off. You aren't allowed to leave until they do.
After I talked to them a little, she (the Mom) told me their tale of woe.
Evidently Junior thought it would be funny to stash "a bullet" (her word) in Sis's backpack for TSA to find. It worked. To use his words, TSA "Totally flipped out".
She told me she was detained, questioned and harrassed by TSA over this bullet for nearly an hour. I asked if she still had it, and if I could see it. I'm kind of surprised they let her keep it after all of that, but they did.
It was, in fact, just a bullet. Not a round. Not live ammo. No explosives whatsoever. Just a small pointy piece of metal. That's it.
What possible damage could that thing have caused? FOD? What was she going to do? Wind up and throw it at somebody?
Can't there be just a little sense and proportion applied to this process?
Asked for a supervisor a couple months ago at Lindbergh to ask why the woman who was supposed to be checking tickets was heads down in a paperback book. He was not pleased but did go and correct the situation. Well, for the time I watched anyway.
TSA is a facade and it makes me hate to go to the airport anymore. I used to enjoy travel.
My sentiments exactly. I only fly when I have to; meaning when the family and I have to visit the inlaws in New England. The Corpus to Hartford drive would be insanity. But, if I'm solo and going TDY, I'll drive. I drove regularly from Louisiana to Vegas. TSA and crowded jets were about 80% of the deciding factor. Having your own car to use and freedom for a 3-week FLAG were the remaining 20%. Nothing like getting stuck in a carpool with 3 other swinging dicks wanting to go to the same lame restaurants night after night to motivate you to make that road trip...
Yes I am. I didn't mean to imply they fain incompetence for tactical reasons, but my comment is true. If you don't see that then you don't know much about how our enemy plans and executes it's plans.
Then you missed the point I was making about my clearance versus yours. Maybe you should spend more time training your dog.
On this we agree and I would add it goes for the entire government and TSA is not the worst offender.
Good bye then.
I have a beef about them too. They get paid way TOO much to do way too little.
But I affirm that TSA is simply a hoop you have to jump through. If you have an issue with them get their name and go up the ladder and make sure you tell them that you're going up the ladder.
They're not hard to replace.
This reminds me of the time when on the first day at our new school, my brother was being interrogated by the headmaster and subsequently suspended for having a baggie of mint in his backpack. Mint.
People can be so obtuse sometimes. And by obtuse, I mean friggin retarded.
Then there was the trip to the Green Bay airport I took the first part of July. My 19 year old nephew was caught with a nine inch knife under the bottom floor piece of his shoulder bag. His father, not with us, makes edged weapons for those Renaissance Fairs. It was his bag. It had just gotten lost under the plastic floor. The TSA folks laughed it off and simply impounded it for disposal. Oh ya, he originated in Phoenix and it got past them. Nine inches of cold steel!!
I accidentally left my leatherman in my backpack (the one I flew with on the war pig) when I traveled on a commercial flight originating at SEA. I didn't even notice it in the bottom of a pouch. They saw it and, much to my surprise, did not make a big deal about it. They pulled it out, told me what I needed to do to mail it back to my house, and sent me on my way. I expected them to go to SpoolCon Delta but they didn't. They were VERY professional and polite. I picked up a comment card, got all their names, and sent it in.
This has been the ONLY positive experience I have had. It was MY screw up, no doubt. Obviously I had no intent to do any harm, I could have flown a plane into downtown Seattle any time I did a DFW, and they recognized that.
Of course there was no end of ribbing from my traveling companions.
Why?? There may be valid reasons to "leave" this forum, but getting into a pissing contest re: "the merits of the TSA" ain't one of 'em.
We NEED input from people like yourself on this forum.
Com'on back -- CHARLIE ON ARRIVAL.
Had an interesting experience with TSA. Took three guns with me on vacation; two rifles, one handgun. No problems in SeaTac. Declared them, showed them to TSA, signed a form certifying they were unloaded. Relocked the case. Done.
Flew back through Newburgh, NY. Given this is like the fifth time I'd checked firearms on a plane, I was expecting to breeze through and get to my gate. TSA employee says to follow her and takes me back into an "authorized personnel only" area into a room that no kidding looks like the room Neo got interrogated in at the beginning of the Matrix.
Opened the case and the TSA person wanted to visually check that the weapons were unloaded. Either she was worried I'd fired a squib or knew jack about guns, because instead of just seeing if there was a round chambered, she was holding the rifles up to a light and trying to look DOWN THE BARREL THROUGH THE ACTION. Yep. You got me. That's where I hide my extra bullets. Halfway down the barrel.
Puts the rifles down and says into her walkie-talkie that she needs the State Police to come over. WTF is going on? I'm completely legal! SERE techniques spring to mind unbidden and get mentally shoved back out of the way. I say "excuse me?" Get told "We need the police to come over for the handguns. We don't do handguns." Shit. TSA at every other airport did. Mind telling me BEFORE you call the cops that you're just calling them to do your job for you? :icon_rage:icon_rage
So here I am in an unmarked dingy room with the TSA and a 6 foot 4 inch state trooper who could play nose tackle. VERY disconcerting even if I'm not in hot water.
Cop checks the pistol is clear and then asks to see my pistol permit. Umm . . . I'm not a NY resident. I don't HAVE a pistol permit. So what's the law in Washington? Seven-day wait and the sale recorded at the Sheriff's office. Where has the weapon been since you've been in NY? In a locked box in the back seat with no ammo. I was staying in PA. I'm going to WA (which means I'm legal under the Federal law which preempts your asinine gun laws so long as I'm just passing through, but I keep that to myself). Cop then goes OK.
Finally get out of there. And the trooper was pretty chill about everything in the end and curious about my Mosin-Nagant. But I am not flying into or out of NY with guns ever again. Sheesh.
Like many others I have experienced episodes of TSA buffoonery, but relief may be on the way. I was asking my FO during a recent trip how his job hunt is coming[we are about to massively furlough]. A very sharp individual, 46 years old with 14,000hours and several thousand in transport category jets,I thought someone would be interested. He told me that he has applied to everyone, including TSA. TSA rejected him stating they are looking for individuals with prior law enforcement and/or experience with X Ray machines.
For those who are curious, he's only received positive feed back from a 18,000dollar a year regional.
Separate names with a comma.