Ensuring the defeat terrorism by breaking the planes so the terrorist can't fly....... http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5613502&page=1
Those idiots never cease to amaze me. Seriously, where the f$&k do they find these idiots? I think I've met two of their employees who didn't immediately strike me as complete morons. And i might note that I fly a LOT and every time i deal with these jackasses my opinion of them reaches a new low. I mean, seriously, I realize that some people are incompetent, that's the nature of things. But WHY is there such a concentration of stupidity at the TSA? From their idiotic rules, which don't make us the least bit safer, to their unbelievably unprofessional behavior, they are a total waste of government money. The heads of the TSA need to come to Japan and see how security is supposed to be done. Everybody dressed sharp, not grossly over weight in a stained uniform, they are professional and fast, but still give the impression of being thorough (i really don't know how good they are, but you don't hear about any highjackings here, at least not recently). The security areas are spotless (like the rest of the airport) and they don't make you do dumb shit like take your shoes off. I get the impression every time I deal with the TSA that I'm infringing on their personal time, never get that here - you feel like you're the ONLY person they have had to screen that day and they are delighted you honored them by choosing their line! erg... /end rant
Well ... don't be too sure about that ... I could tell you a couple of security related stories that would make your round-eyes get rounder. :sleep_125 Jap-anese airport security is still a "dumping ground" for airport employees in a general sense ... much like their Gaijin counterparts. We don't have a monopoly on bureaucratic stupidity ... it's just that most of the Jap-anese airport security personnel are not as fat ... ..... but their mindset, culture, and tradition still forces them to defer to the Gaijin Kyaputen when push comes to shove -- and when Captain Aloha lays the hammer down. Believe it.
well, if you're going to go through security run by Special Olympics bench warmers, at least it's nice to deal with someone who's polite and doesn't look like ass. Airport security wasn't competent BEFORE 9/11, but at least they didn't harass you much. You're just as unsafe on the other side of the checkpoint but you're not pissed off.
Fe-e-e-e-elings .... whoa, whoa, whoa .... feeee-e-e-elings .... whoa, whoa, whoa .... fee-e-e-e-elings, nothing more than feelings .... Feelings don't count, only competency counts. TSA-style airport "security" is mostly bullshit in any case ... no matter in what language it's spoken ...
I had a great experience at the Portland airport last week. I finished my meeting and did not have time to change out of uniform before catching my flight. Of course, I set the metal detector off and the woman asks me to take off my shoes and go through again. There is no requirement that you take your shoes off, so I told her that I would rather stay in proper uniform. She tells me "If you want to get on any flight today, you will take your shoes off. They are setting off the metal detector." Now, Bates Lites don't have any metal in them, so I figure that I will play along. I remove the shoes, walk through again and of course it goes off. Now the woman is confused and can't figure out why it's beeping. I point out the fact that I have metal on my collar devices, wings, medals, name tag, belt buckle, and shirt stays. She looks confused and pissed. Then she askes me to take my belt off. "No, thank you, I would prefer to be checked by one of the hand held detectors." So, she sends me off to a glass cube just behind the metal detector area in full view of about 400 people waiting to get through security. At this point, it was pretty obvious that their goal was not to see if I had a weapon, but to attempt to humiliate me. They had me stand there with my arm out for 4-5 minutes, the TSA agent removed my belt and unbuttoned my uniform shirt to feel my chest behind my medals. and name tag. Not cool. Not fun.
Now put on the uniform of a 747 Captain and repeat. That's why I decided early in the TSA "game" to figuratively take out my sword and draw a line in the sand. I was NOT going to be strip-searched nor poked, punched, prodded, and dressed down by a bunch of high school drop-outs when I had the "keys to the car" ... and more security training and knowledge in my little finger than they did in their entire peanut brain .... AND I had 400 passengers waiting on me to man up and light the fires. I'll do what's "right & proper" and cooperate, but not drop and give 'em "50" so they can feel "good" about their place in the world. Bring over the supervisor ... and quote Captain Aloha: "I'm starting to get stressed out over this whole procedure and do not think I will be mentally prepared nor safe to fly this flight if this harassment continues ..... " Result: Security screening passed. Game over.
I am going to go way out on a limb here and try to bring the TSA bashing into perspective. Since I fly more then all of you, except the other active airline guys here, I feel qualified. Generally, I find the employees at check points reasonable. Many are not very personable. But then how would you act when person after person you deal with acts like an idiot (not you propstop). I guarantee you many of the passengers are absolutely clueless, like there is not threat to security, or their mothers didn't teach them common courtesy. In fact, I don't think it unusual to see passengers at the check points being far more idiotic and impolite then the TSA screeners. And speaking of idiotic, these guys are just enforcing stupid rules they are ordered to enforce. (Like that never happens in the Navy) They don't make the rules and they have no choice. TSA screeners are given zero authority to use their own common sense or judgment. It is a hard job. It isn't much different then being a corrections officer. Some one out there is going to try to take advantage of any perceived weakness. You have to be a bit of the hard ass all the time. If you get too friendly and casual one minute you may miss a detail or be conned the next minute. The effectiveness of TSA policies is absolutely debatable. But I find most of the TSA folks are just trying to do their jobs in a tough situation. Give me a break, do you want to be the guy that lets the next Richard Reid through security? I know you don't want to be the next guy to splash a plane, so you take your job seriously. Why can't they? As to where do they get these guys? Lots are ex military. So if they are idiots they are your spawn. Recently, the only guy I have had even a little difficulty with is a former Marine in LAX. Lately, in my experience, I have not found TSA personnel to be any better or worse then the folks at DMV or the Post Office, and they have tougher jobs. BTW you are required to take your shoes off!
Good point. Which is why I eschew all contact w/ government bean-counters-workers whenever possible ... Good post, too Wink. Good headwork as always.
Negative. http://www.tsa.dhs.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1880.shtm Military personnel in uniform, with a valid military ID are not required to remove their footwear unless it alarms the walk through metal detector. If the woman had any sense at all, or ever paid a lick of attention to anything in her life, she could tell the difference between a pair of dress shoes and steel toe boots. She could have also opened up her eyes to the fact that my uniform has about 15 other metal objects on it, and taking rubber and leather shoes off are not going make one bit of a difference in what that machine picks up. If she had known her policy and paid attention to what her eyes and ears were telling her, I would have just gone straight to the secondary screening.
I hear you Wink, and I understand the situation very well. I've worked (in a previous life) in tourism, specifically with helicopters. People get D-U-M dumb around aircraft, for some reason, and that extends to the security checkpoint. As the guy in the know, the employee processing people, it is extremely frustrating to deal with those brain dead people, as you well know. It is very hard to treat every passenger with respect and courtesy - but that is part of the job. That and make sure they are safe. My point of contention is this - a lot of the screeners are no different quality wise than the people before 9/11, and they used to be just as (in)effective then without being dicks. So they are not the sharpest tools in the shed, that's okay. I know it's a hard job, and it IS important, but they can still do a better job and they can be courteous. They may have little wiggle room within their rules, but they CAN apply common sense - if they have it. Be they ex-military or otherwise, stupid is stupid and it is inexcusable. If you're an idiot, you shouldn't be hired. Of course, the pool of non-idiots who are willing to do that job is fairly small I guess. I know there are good TSA people out there - I've met more than a few. But when I walk up, present my ID and ticket, say "Hi, how are you doing?", don't be a dick to me. This happens all the time, and I am not a dick to them, I am exceedingly polite because that's the way I was raised. The TSA would be more effective with their current crop of people if they would focus on professionalism and customer service. I've seen it done other places and at least FELT more safe, because the screeners seemed to be on the ball. Perception is a major part of the security battle. I would accept their crappy service, attitudes, and uniforms if I was certain they were effective, but how often have we heard about them failing THEIR OWN TEST?! At least their honest with their audits.
Hmmmm ... wonder how El Al "TSA" does it .... THOSE are the guys I want on my team. It CAN be done -- and done correctly, politely, and professionally. Just not anywhere near U.S. airports .... and not anytime soon. :sleep_125
Does anyone have a copy of the Navy/Marine Corps Times where a retiring Gunny wrote in about his TSA application/interview process? Basically he has a heavy security background; embassy, MP, etc... He spoke of going into the interview and being questioned by a bunch of wet behind the ears college NSPS/GS paper pushers. Interview wrapped up and they said they'd be calling him. He goes to the outer office to complete some ppwk. This takes some time, when out from the interview room squeals a 20-something girl. She basically comes out and asks another employee what the job she just got hired for mean. Basically she just got hired for the same job the soon-to-be retired Gunny was interviewing for and she had no idea what is was, and more importantly had no experience. The job was something like Security Supervisor or Manager for the TSA. That's who's running the TSA.
Your anecdote is NOT a-typical, unfortunately. I was "involved" w/ some of the early FFDO pilot program features and requirements, and as a result, I became conversant and involved w/ aspects of the FAM (Air Marshal) program, as well. I tried to recommend a former SEAL friend, a retired Master Chief, and another gent -- all of whom had serious security credentials -- to the FAM program. They were all bright boys, fit, and had the head and the ability to excel at the job. All were "denied" as they had no college degree. And yet, on one of my flights, I had to tell a "college educated" FAM to go change his shirt as the pistol on his belt was "printing" through his Polo shirt. College boys are great. I weep for the future ...
My bad. I forgot that. But you can forgive me because airline personnel in uniform with ID DO have to take their shoes off. Stupid rules anyone? Well it appears to me she knows her procedures better then you after all. Once you alarm on the walk through they have to ID all the sources of the possible alarm. Now that means shoes. So, once you alarm the shoes go through the X-ray. The X-ray is the most accurate way to inspect the shoes. Why not use it. Since you are a security expert I am surprised you didn't know that the threat from shoes is not just from metal. In fact, they are looking for more then metal. Thus, having your shoes hand wanded is not a very effective tool. That is why everyone else's shoes must go thru even if they are all rubber athletic shoes, or yes, flip flops. All she was doing was isolating a possible source of the alarm and allowing her colleague to look for non metal prohibited items. Give it a break. There are stupid TSA rules and less then stellar TSA personnel. You are entitled to be frustrated but consider, if she was extra thorough on you (and that is what it was, erring on the side of caution), then she will probably be hard on the next guy that may be a real threat. Does it matter if she is a dope blindly following orders or super intuitive? You don't want to destroy what enthusiasm or pride in their work these people have left. If they didn't care, instead of 50% of the test weapons getting through 75% would. That make your happier?
The TSA came into our crew lounge the other day and started checking badges. They were starting to write up a bunch of pilots who had their badges on their jackets that were hanging off the handles of their roller bags. "Supposed to be wearing them at all times". The Chief Pilot asked them if he should hang his off his dick while showering in the locker room (ex-Army guy) then called the head TSA guy at the airport. The head TSA guy had to come to the lounge and call off his attack dogs who then tried to argue with him about it. TSA does not follow it's own rules. I've been in uniform with a HNL SIDA badge & Hawaiian pilot ID and denied entry at HNL security numerous times despite explaining to them that I was the pilot of the flight and not the pax. I've then had to either get a supervisor, go to another security gate or walk way out of my way to a door where I can swipe myself through with my SIDA badge. Once when I swiped myself through, the TSA agent that denied me at the security counter saw me and called the cops (who laughed and sent me on my way). I agree with Wink that TSA sees a lot of idiot pax daily and it's a tough job that 90% try their best to do right. But the other 10% are idiots and like everywhere, it's the idiots you remember. BTW, back in 2002 when I was furloughed, I applied to the TSA and was offered a supervisor position. I turned it down because the process was so f'ed up that I was sure the job would be too. Plus the interviewers were a bunch of prima dona assholes who were sure they were the next saviors of mankind. Full of inflated egos and actually said the TSA was the ONLY agency preventing another terrorist attack. They said everyone else - military, CIA, FBI, etc., - was ineffectual and they were the only effective defense for America. And they really believed it. Scared the shit out of me.....
They didn't use it. I knew it was pointless with all of the metal on my uniform so I kicked off my shoes, walked through the detector...BEEEEP..."Sir, you are going to have to go over to that area for a secondary inspection"....walk back through the metal detector to pick up my shoes..BEEEEP....walk to secondary inspection area....BEEEP... My shoes never went through the x-ray. Then why x-ray them only after they set off the metal detector? Sorry, that is totally counterintuitive. I have been around long enough to know when someone is being a bitch simply because they can, and when someone is just trying to do a good job. This was the former. She thought it was funny to humiliate a member of the military in public. No, I don't feel better about it. The funny think is that this was only one of three examples of TSA SNAFUs while I was on one trip. In Memphis, I made it all the way through security with a boarding pass to San Diego with the name "Stephen Smith" on it. My name is not even close to Stephen Smith, and I was flying to Colorado Springs. Neither of the 2 TSA agents who checked the pass against my Military ID noticed that the names did not match. Don't ask me how I got Mr. Smith's boarding pass, I don't know. My best guess is that it was stuck in the self service machine at the check in counter and I got it by mistake and left my pass behind. The other one is pretty minor, but stuck out in my mind due to the screw up in Memphis. The first agent that checked my ID and boarding pass in Portland was checking the passes with her left hand and sending a text message on her cell phone with her right hand. I am sure that she was REALLY focused on her job, and her supervisor was obviously really focused on her. Feel worse?
They really need to start taking this kind of shit out of these moron's pay. The TSA is a worthless organization and a waste of money to give (only the dumbest) Americans the ILLUSION of security. Most of the "agents" I've seen are severely overweight, cross-eyed, bumbling retards who actually have trouble speaking, thinking and walking at the same time. Now, as for another topic, I found this quote interesting: Ever wonder why the mod-squad and websan are so eager to delete posts and lock threads relating to mishaps etc? That's the last thing we need is to have a reporter write: "ENS Motballie, an F/A-18 Naval Aviator, wrote on an internet forum that space aliens are the cause of the latest mishap".
This is the crux of the matter. Aside from a large amount (or an extremely powerful form) of explosives, weapons are now pretty much worthless on a plane from a terrorist perspective. Unless they can kill everybody on the plane and break into the cockpit, they're done. 9/11 happenned because our previous doctrine/procedures dealing with hijackings. The idea was to give them what they want and get the plane landed safely. It hadn't really occurred to us that the hijackers wouldn't want to land before. We got caught with our pants down, and that trick won't work again. It's a one trick pony. United 93 proved that. All of these futile attempts at finding weapons (which evidently aren't even very effective) are just a waste of time, money, and resources. If 30 people on board had K-bars and .45's, the other 100 would stomp the shit out of them before they'd let the plane be taken over again. Several of them would be shot or stabbed, but it's better than flying into a building. Look at Richard Reid. He got a beat down from some middle aged sky-waitress when he tried to light his shoe on fire. Is it really worth it to take away toenail clippers from little old women? All that TSA does now is give us the impression that we're doing something, ANYTHING, to stop terrorism. The reality is that they do not appreciably contribute to safety/security.
I don't know anyone who thinks that all of the security at airports is worthwhile. And you guys (generally smart and knowledgeable people) don't seem to think so. So why is it that way? And will it ever change? Also, I've always found the TSA people at PHX to be professional. I remember there's this one older guy who I've seen a few times checking IDs and he's the coolest--always friendly and starts up brief chats while he checks the ID. Just my experience at that airport.
