Discussion in 'Current News' started by A4sForever, Oct 1, 2008.
Let's change it up from Maverick to REBEL!
Some boroughs have sales tax, even if Anchorage doesn't.
Sierra Nevada...you suck. I'm so tired of japanese beer... The air force does not know how to properly stock a class-6.
Interesting debate, but i'm gonna have to go with...
My vote's in. No surprises here.
Folksy, maybe, but way better than the same ole politics I'm used to hearing.
I know, i'm from Juneau - 5%. Buuut, the state doesn't dictate those taxes.
Gotta admit I was kinda surprised that Biden agreed with Palin on the gay marriage issue. I thought that was strong party line for the Democrats.
Either way, I think it was really close, almost a tie, and as such I'd have to give edge to Palin since she was considered the underdog.
She didn't get thrashed, so politically, it's a win for her.
And politicians don't stretch the truth
Someone please tell Governor Palin she is NOT Ronald Reagan.
My impressions thus far:
1) The time allotted for answers does not allow either candidate to provide a fully detailed response to, well, anything. They just go back and forth quoting the same sound bites that you might hear on a commercial. As such, this is hardly useful for gaining any sort of insight as to where the candidates stand on the issues and whether or not such a stance is warranted.
2) In this age of information, the national debate commission (or whoever organizes these things) should come up with some way to fact-check what each candidate is saying in real time. I find that this would be extremely helpful during the times when both candidates start quoting "facts" to back up their claims.
3) Along those lines, there is way too much "he said/she said" focus in this debate. Maybe it's because Palin has been the subject of a lot of soundbyte attacks herself, but she keeps trying to attack one-liners that Biden or Obama may or may not have said sometime in the past which may or may not be out of context. Then the debate degrades into an argument over what the person may have said in the past rather than actual policy.
Overall, I don't find the debate very informative, and really can't declare a winner since very few answers lack any sort of real substance. Biden comes off as extremely arrogant and dismissing when he smiles/laughs at some of Palin's statements, and Palin comes off as too, as some have already put it, "folksy."
Next time I run into her, will do.
My observations and opinions...
1) Palin performed better than I and many of us ..if we were honest, thought she would.
2) The word maverick should join warfighter, and warrior in time out.
3) Biden was more diverse in actually discussing the issues that lie ahead and the damage(s) done during the Bush administration. Palin was more concerned with proving that she was competent. (An example of this was her constantly going back to talk about energy, since that was an area she was most comfortable talking about..being from Alaska)
I think both VP's had different objectives and I believe both achieved what they sought out to do. Biden went after McCain and his policies vs Obama and his policies. Palin, I believe, wanted to prove that she could be a thorn in the Democrats' side and that she was competent enough to be the VP on the Republican ticket.
I think it was a draw, in which case techincally Palin won since everyone expected her to have the disadvantage. -Coming in tonight, all eyes were on Palin and she did well: was poised, showed her good personality, and spoke very well. Biden also did well tonight. Overall a good debate from what i saw. Oh, and I prematurely voted and couldn't vote again; hence the reason for this post as opposed to just voting here.
Do no harm, is that how low the bar is?
I don't know, 4 schools (one was twice) in 5/6 years? I am no elitist when it comes to education, but really?
And since when were interviews of prospective office holders supposed to be 'friendly'?
Good on Gwen Ifill.....
Wow ... 32 .... check, check 44 peeps onboard for this thread right now ... an AW's record??
She looked good; he looked old. Has he had a bad "eye job"???
I think she did well since "everyone" was anticipating that she could/would crash & burn ... but she's a "real" person and handled the drumbeat well and overall spoke with clarity & conviction .... Gwen Ifill was no factor.
Biden?? Was he crying?? There's no crying in politics ... she came back cool & collected and answered the question. I love it when ol' Joe talks r-e-a-l-l-l-l-l s-l-o-w-w-w-w so even idiots like me can understand the magnificence that is his brain and intellect.
He's been in there swingin' for 35+/- years and hasn't made any difference in the country other than to piss off conservatives ... he does great as a talking policy wonk on the Sunday morning talk shows ... but he has had no effect on our daily lives, and never has ... he was placed on the ticket to counter Barry Obama's lack of qualifications ... which clarifies a lot for me.
McCain's not "my guy", but he's the one that won't destroy the country and our way of life. Palin could have hurt the ticket big time tonight ... but she didn't ... so by not "losing" ... she "won".
Hate to say it, but in my opinion, the nod tonight goes to Biden. But I'm still with McCain.
I don't know how many of you have actually done CX debate, and these don't really fit the format. Those debates are decided by who best makes their case and defends it. Additional points are given for speaking ability. If the debate is a draw, it goes down to "speaker points". Now, you can get a lot of speaker points and still lose the debate if you don't address the issue or get off track.
These "debates" are not really debates. It's an opportunity to talk about differences in policy and hope the other guy says something really stupid.
What we saw today was Biden trying to put John McCain's record on trial and tie him to President Bush. All of our current problems are rooted in the last 8 years, the last 8 years were all f'd up, and McCain is a continuation of all that f'd up-ness. OK. That's the Obama/Biden ticket. Biden ran off a bunch of vote records, statistics, and put 20+ years of senate work for McCain on trial. He sounding like an old politician talking politics. Yawn.
Palin was at a bit of a disadvantage because she could not put Obama's record on trial in large part because he does not have one. Nobody really gives a crap about Biden's record, and the prospective VP's know that it is their job to attack the top of the other ticket. Palin will probably get criticized by the media for speaking in general terms. They will want you to think that is because she is a stupid woman who can't understand big issues. Lucky for us, most people understand that those generalities are synonyms for PRINCIPLES. That's something that Americans can relate to.
Palin came across as a much more likable person in this debate. She obviously plays to the camera better than Biden does, and she does not talk down to the American people like Obama does. If this debate is a tie, then Palin dominated the final score with speaker points.
Ahem! Ok, ok, so this turned out completely the opposite, I think Palin had the definitive upper hand on this one. Looks like they learned from the last debate because she was straight to the point, didn't point any fingers, called Biden out with some good zingers, and generally made me feel a lot more comfortable about their ticket. I stand corrected.
She was rather ineffective - the questions sucked and she didn't really control the direction of the debate and let them get off topic and avoid answering the questions.
She is good at rattling off talking points irrespective of whether they actually are relevent to the question asked...... FAIL.
Laying out quantitatively McCain's voting history is a "yawn"? Yes, granted, Obama doesn't have much of a history to go on, but Biden definitely presented a stronger case by drawing on McCain's record.
Well, she certainly didn't disabuse us of the notion that she doesn't understand the issues. Those generalities aren't synonyms for principles, they're just conservative talking points and catch-phrases that make the base feel good, but don't say squat.
Right ... but not the 5 time Vietnam deferment (a record which ties the current VP), bad day hair transplant recipient, serial plagiarizer ... yes ??? The guy who has been in Congress forever and yet nobody cares ... he doesn't use talking points, does he .... ???
Politicians don't use talking points .... do they??
I love the thought processes of some of you guys ...
Well, then let's cancel the debates and just have a a 50 questions multiple choice test. That will be a lot of fun.
OBTW, If people were living by those conservative talking points, we would not be in this stupid fucking economic mess that we are in now. You know principles like not going into stupid ass crazy debt. Not buying shit you don't need or can't afford, etc.
Honestly, I just watched the debate to watch the equivelent of two retards competing in the special olympics. Neither one delivered, so I'm disappointed.
Raptor posted articles that took me 20 minutes to read detailing the foreign policy issues that the next President would have to face. Candidates can't explain their stances on that and why in 2 minutes, and there were no specific questions about potential foreign policy issues facing the next president anyway. In other words, as I said before, the debate is relatively worthless as to figuring out where candidates stand on issues and which one has more knowledges.
Eh, the progressive income tax is a method that the government uses to regulate our economy. Just because the GOP advocates lower taxes does not mean that they stand for no regulation. They just differ from Democrats in regards to where they want to apply that regulation. The GOP run Congress and Presidency continually offered tax incentives to financial companies over the past few years in order to encourage spending to "jumpstart" the economy. Eventually, it bubbled and then popped, and here we are today.
Not saying that private companies and people who took loans aren't at fault, but the GOP isn't exactly innocent here, either.
I thought Biden's best moment was when he talked about when he lost his wife and daughter and had his sons hospitalized. That was the only moment in the debate where I thought one of the candidates just spoke to the voters and not a rehearsed answer.
Palin didn't make the mistake that everyone was looking for. I think she held her own considering the foreign experience Biden has. All in all this debate probably will change no one's mind on who to vote for...
But since McCain had more to lose, I think it is a win for Palin
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