The Steve Wilkins Memorial Surface Warfare Officer (SWO) Thread

bronxbomber,

Go to this page and click on "Spring 2009 NROTC Ship List." It will show you the numbered ranking of every NROTC Mid from last semester and what ship they went to. For the record, even the lowest ranked dude in the country had the option to go to a Minesweep in San Diego...and he chose something else.

I could easily bang out a page on what type of ship to pick, feel free to PM me or post more specific questions if you've got them.

As far as SWOs being cutthroat, I haven't seen that- it's probably more of an issue amongst department heads, as they're more career-oriented guys gunning for command. I can't see most JOs throwing a fellow ENS/JG under the bus to "get ahead" but I'm sure there are some tools out there who would.

I've been thrown under, and have thrown others under. It wasn't to try to look good, it was just being on the spotlight and not knowing how to act. You live and learn, and harass the guy who clammed up and did it to you.

Your info is a bit dated. We did just as much independent steaming on the cruiser as a DDG. Command ships aren't welded to the pier anymore although with the budget the way it is we may all be soon.

Why do you have to scare us guys about to come in??? lol

My cousin is about to head to OCS and is going to be a SWO. I believe in telling you guys like it is. One way or another you will all get qualified.

We're already there. All you need to do is walk down the piers at Norfolk and see all the ships that are moored everyday.

Thanks

Thanks for all your help. I guess that Ensign lied to me lol. The thing which seems pretty cool about Minesweepers is the fraternity feeling of it. The only thing I fear about them is that they don't go on nearly as cool deployments as DDG's, CG's, or FFG's. There is almost no info on MCM's so I'm trying to get as much info on them before I head back and have a chance to talk with my SWO advisor, who I'm sure will steer me away from them.

From taking time and reading through more of the threads, I'm under the impression that while SWO-dom allows an officer to experience alot of things that have no counterpart in the civilian world, it comes with a ton of headaches (much more so than the other communities).


Headaches and hassles aside, how personally satisfying is it to be able to encourage, lead, and support the enlisted sailors as an SWO? Does trying to build a positive environment and watching the people under your guidance excel at their jobs make up for the tediousness of SWO-life?

Jesus Tapdancing Christ, man. "Encourage, lead, and support the enlisted sailors"? You sound like you write Official Navy Bullshit for a living. You sure you're not a troll from CNO's office?

Being a SWO is misery on a stick.* If you just read the job description, it's not a bad gig - paperwork, and some boat-driving - and it shouldn't be a bad job. There are some good days and some upsides to the job and it's definitely more interesting than filling out TPS reports in some office park, but on the whole, the vicious backstabbing and buffoonery of some of your fellow officers make for a very painful way to serve your country.

* - the stick is shoved up your ass, in case you were wondering

You don't even have to get over to the piers- just try to drive anywhere on I-564 between about 6-7 in the morning and you can tell there are waaaaay too many ships in port right now... :banghead_

(I don't miss that routine )

Very and Yes.

Yeah yeah, I was trying to find something more positive than "manage and oversee" without sounding like a complete douche, but with 3:00am insomnia it looks like I only partially succeeded. :icon_tong



And Skim, thank you for the response, if there are good tangible benefits like that, it sounds like it'd be worth it. (Besides, how often do you *really* get the opportunity to drive a 500-ft boat that's armed to the teeth??)

Hopefully only once, and it was on summer cruise.

I've been told that I stomped on the dreams of the last bright-eyed SWOlet-wannabe who came 'round a tad too hard. So I'll just say, if by "driving" you mean giving rudder orders while the Captain yells at you from CIC, then chase those dreams, baby.

Wow!! After reading this thread all the way through I'm not quite sure what the motive for SWO bashing has been in this thread, although clearly some HSL bubbas in the mix have some baggage. I think it's all about perspective and here's mine:

1) SWOs, Aviators and Submarines compose the combat arms of the Navy. They are all critical and also distinct in culture. I would rather be combat arms than anything else. We all picked our paths, hopefully for good reasons...it is what it is!

2) Everyone who joins the Navy will end up on ships if they want to stay competitive. Ships = Navy. No surprise there. Carrier pilots will cruise on the "boat," HSL bubbas will cruise on small boys, JAG, Docs, nurses all get some form of sea time to stay competitive. Even HR Officers will now be TRAINOs aboard CVNs in order to remain competitive at the statutory boards.

3) Keeping a ship running and trained for combat operations is labor intensive. It requires an enormous amount of hard work with a lot wheel spinning at times and certainly not all fun. I don't believe for second other communities are all rosy. Each community has goods and bads.

4) The more senior you get, the working hours and level of effort seem to reach parity. The Aviator CO of an LPD has the same responsibilities as the SWO CO of a CG. Different mission sets, of course, but the same burden of commanding a ship. I can't compare Squadron CO to Ship CO, simply different animals. But, still time-consuming and challenging.

5) A good deal of pain within a ship or squadron is caused by entities outside the life lines. Staffers wreak havoc. For example, the random Thursday tasker from some GS-7 at NAVSEA or NAVAIR that trickles down to TYCOM and reaches commands Friday afternoon with a COB deadline. I don't believe for a moment the Aviation Community is immune to this. I've also experienced and witnessed churn created by non-SWO active duty staffers. The enterprising O-4 non-SWO on the Fleet staff who decides to innocently shoot an e-mail directly to a ship XO/OPS about a sked change or something to that effect. The XO/OPS thinks the information is valid, assuming the decision has been properly staffed and approved, gets the ball moving only to find out the information/decision was not staffed and was not approved and skipped a number of rungs in the chain-of-command.

That's the perspective part.

As for my decision to go SWO, I wanted to be one since I was 12 and first smelled a ship....yep...that fresh paint mixed with generic cleaner mixed with neverdull mixed with who knows what. I wish I could bottle it up as a cologne. After my first U/W on mid-cruise that was it for me. I did flirt with the Marine Corps a little, but in the end I realized I loved ships. I have thoroughly enjoyed the leadership aspects and challenges of each job I've had as a SWO. And by saying challenges, I'm not saying pain. Each job I've had as a SWO has been different and I've been able to learn new skills. The more senior I get the smaller and tighter the brothers and sisters of the community get - of course that's true for all the communities.

Leading Sailors aboard ships at sea is the foundation of our service and I honestly can't think of anything I'd rather be doing. But its all cool. I'd certainly jump at the chance to get a CAT shot in an F-18 or do under-ice ops in a sub or be a riverine OIC. It's all great. I only wish we could stay in for 40 years and also stay 25 years old for the entire time. If someone figures out how to do that, let me know!

Aww crap....a detailer! Now all the SWO JOs need to tread carefully. :icon_tong

Big Red - We've been on Sailor Bob for a number of months now and it's all good - no one has to watch what they say. We're on here to answer any general SWO career questions from the audience - from the horse's mouth so to speak.

ea6bflyr - good point about ADC duties. I still feel the jobs are comparable as the LPD CO still has a lot of moving parts. Nice poke on the seek mental help recommendation!

Okay, I made that last part up. Or did I?

Nice! :icon_wink

Serious question here...

I've read many a story of SWO captains being fired for something that a JO OOD does, but I never read stories of aviator COs being fired for a JO pilot's screwup. Even as a submariner, I've been told that all a nub JO represents is a new opportunity for the captain to be fired. Are aviators just better at covering things up, or does aviation just do a better job at holding junior people accountable for their own actions? Does the discrepency in the job risk account for the higher amount of supposed micro-management?

The Aircraft Commander bears the same responsibility as the captain of a ship. If someone else on a crew screws up, the PIC bears responsibility, even if he's not directly at fault. Squadron commanders can be held responsible if it's decided a failure of leadership put a crew in a bad position (e.g., pressured to take an aircraft against the PIC's judgement, lax Maint Control, etc). Of course, if the skipper is the aircraft commander in a mishap, he's responsible that way, too.

Actually, for both the ARLEIGH BURKE and PORT ROYAL incidents, the CO and XO were directly involved.

Any time there is an evolution with above average risk, the CO/XO are expected to be involved. I'd be interested to hear about a CO being fired due solely to the actions of a JO.

Accountibility

In additon, a Squadron/Ship CO can be held accountable for a lack of or inadequate TRAINING, which is determined to have caused or contributed to a mishap or incident.
BzB

Which is why the correct answer to pretty much any question on an OOD board is, "Call the Captain."

Anecdote follows: After the departure of my first Captain, and the three-day party thrown by the survivors, we get underway with the new CO. Old captain was a micro-manager and screamer of the first magnitude, and Sea & Anchor with that guy was always a pain epic, even routine u/w from homeport. So as we're passing Sub Base (Point Loma) headed outbound, the new CO made a point of telling the OOD (2d-tour JO) "Okay, FCO, looks like you've got it wired. I'll be in my cabin. C'mon, XO, let's look at the Chiefs' fitreps."

The stunned looks on everyone's faces were priceless. Being trusted was an utterly foreign feeling.