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USN The Slow Death Of The Carrier Air Wing - Or a CSAR Threadjack

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Stories I've never heard: whatever possessed the AF to wear rank insignia with those stupid plasticy-looking covers on top. It looks horrible.
 

hscs

Registered User
pilot
expanding a dedicated CSAR all weather platform - complete opposite of what the Navy did.

Great video, but man, those things were tired at the end of life - start the night with 6 x FMC and finish with 6 x NMC, almost every night.

As for the divergence in capability development, USN was working on things like LAMPS and AQS-13 to handle submarines.

Deja vu?
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
Great video, but man, those things were tired at the end of life - start the night with 6 x FMC and finish with 6 x NMC, almost every night.

As for the divergence in capability development, USN was working on things like LAMPS and AQS-13 to handle submarines.

Deja vu?
good point!!! Post Vietnam the Navy went full bore to core fleet defense (F-14A) and inner and outer zone ASW (S-3 Viking, LAMPS SH-2 and LAMPS SH-60)
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
good point!!! Post Vietnam the Navy went full bore to core fleet defense (F-14A) and inner and outer zone ASW (S-3 Viking, LAMPS SH-2 and LAMPS SH-60)
Old farts correct me if I'm wrong. But post-Vietnam, wasn't the CSG (well, CVBG) posited to be blue-water supporting REFORGER and the Second Battle of the Atlantic? You don't need an overland CSAR capability to fish some Tomcat crew who got schwacked by an AA-10 or a Backfire tailgunner out of the North Atlantic. I mean, there was El Dorado Canyon and the strikes in to Lebanon/Syria, but was that doctrinally what we equipped the Fleet for in the 80s? The game wasn't overland strike until the 1990s brought Desert Storm, the no-fly zones, and Allied Force, yes?
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
+1 - As a Midshipman, we were taught Greenland, Iceland, UK gap blue water combat scenario doctrine.
 

Pags

N/A
pilot
Old farts correct me if I'm wrong. But post-Vietnam, wasn't the CSG (well, CVBG) posited to be blue-water supporting REFORGER and the Second Battle of the Atlantic? You don't need an overland CSAR capability to fish some Tomcat crew who got schwacked by an AA-10 or a Backfire tailgunner out of the North Atlantic. I mean, there was El Dorado Canyon and the strikes in to Lebanon/Syria, but was that doctrinally what we equipped the Fleet for in the 80s? The game wasn't overland strike until the 1990s brought Desert Storm, the no-fly zones, and Allied Force, yes?
Wasn’t going to write a post just like this. Red Storm Rising is probably a decent guess as to how USN forces would’ve been used. And while there’s tremendous value to ensuring you have methods in place to retrieving downed aviators, you don’t need super CSAR capabilities for over water recovery. Recovery could be done by small boys, subs, helos, etc.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I always giggle when I read the part in Red Storm Rising where the P-3 crew had a Harpoon malfunction. So true to life, even 2 decades later.

That was a large part of the appeal of many of his books, particularly Red Storm Rising, stuff didn't always work the way it was supposed and some unexpected but still plausible stuff happens; Let's send B-52's to bomb Iceland unescorted...whoops, the ASAT blew up because it was on the shelf too long, a Russian frigate just so happened to be drifting in the missile launch area and that damn Norwegian sub captain got the big fish before me. Still a cool book 30 years later.
 
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Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
Old farts correct me if I'm wrong. But post-Vietnam, wasn't the CSG (well, CVBG) posited to be blue-water supporting REFORGER and the Second Battle of the Atlantic? You don't need an overland CSAR capability to fish some Tomcat crew who got schwacked by an AA-10 or a Backfire tailgunner out of the North Atlantic.

You may like this - I put this in the NetFlix thread earlier. At about 45:00, you see the anticipated naval battle in support of REFORGER.

 

jmcquate

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Went out last night to watch the Big 10 Championship game with a buddy who's high up in JPRC and asked him about this. He said the CVW rotary asset lack of in-air re-fueling capability is a major factor.
 

azguy

Well-Known Member
None
Went out last night to watch the Big 10 Championship game with a buddy who's high up in JPRC and asked him about this. He said the CVW rotary asset lack of in-air re-fueling capability is a major factor.

Challenge!
 
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