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NEWS The Not So Friendly Skies....

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
Not a good day for United... The headlines from the LA Times.

In short, United overbooked, nobody would give up their seat and instead of increasing the incentive high enough, the police physically drag out an unlucky passenger to make room for a United crew that needed to get to Louisville.

United finds a new way to make itself — and the U.S. airline industry — look awful

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-united-video-20170410-story.html
 

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
That video... Jeebus. We have reached a new low. I'm amazed that such a truly extraordinary means of travel has been brought to such a sorry state.

What I'm not clear on is how they decided who wasn't going to get a seat. I can't help but wonder if there is more to the story here.
 

FrankTheTank

Professional Pot Stirrer
pilot
That video... Jeebus. We have reached a new low. I'm amazed that such a truly extraordinary means of travel has been brought to such a sorry state.

What I'm not clear on is how they decided who wasn't going to get a seat. I can't help but wonder if there is more to the story here.
Not a people hauler so only repeating what the news just said.. But apparently it is random selection and they choose 4 people. (Due to the deadheading crew members). Three got off and one refused..
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
The aeronautical equivalent of "Don't taze me bro!"
 

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
United CEO says one thing:

104223763-3ED2-CB-MunozUALCEO-121717.530x298.jpg

United CEO Oscar Munoz doubled down in a letter to employees on Monday evening, claiming that employees "followed established procedures" when removing a passenger from a plane because it was overbooked, and calling the passenger "disruptive and belligerent."

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/10/united-ceo-passenger-disruptive-belligerent.html

However the internet has responded with brutal memes of United training videos:

Meanwhile, at the @united Flight Attendant training facility.... #united


"Nobody can create a worse PR situation than @pepsi just did!" @united : "Hold my beer". #united #flight341



"We are also reaching out to this passenger to talk directly to him..." --Oscar Munoz, CEO #United Airlines

C9F7tBEV0AA56cP.jpg
 

HuggyU2

Well-Known Member
None
We have reached a new low.

Bad PR, and certainly could have been handled in a manner to minimize that. But I disagree to some extent.

The way it works is when flights are overbooked, they look for volunteers. They didn't get enough. This guy was going to get paid $1000 in travel credits. Sorry you got bumped, but... like every other major airline... read the contract you signed when you bought the ticket. But he won't play ball.

Yes, they could have thrown more money at the passengers and found a different volunteer. But one argument against that is you show passengers they can hold a plan of 170 people hostage when they refuse to listen to the flightcrew and won't get off.

In any case, once the guy became uncooperative, law enforcement takes over, and United doesn't control the situation.

Oh... I love how the pundits say "you shouldn't overbook!"... yet they want to be able to have a 100% refundable ticket.

BTW, what is up with that guy's scream? He seriously gave up his man-card. I'm sure his wife and kids are proud.
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
They should have known they had 4 flight crew that needed to get to Louisville, and they should have solved the seat issue before letting people board, IMO as a bystander that was United's screw up. I would feel that as a passenger once on the plane we should be safe.

Several years ago a CPO I was stationed with was on the way back from some TAD and was meeting us in SD, the airlines way to pick people must have failed and he was "selected" to be bumped until he let them know he was on orders. I would have thought they could figure that stuff out.

There are several times I would have taken the bump but that work thing got in the way.
 

Ralph

Registered User
Bad PR, and certainly could have been handled in a manner to minimize that. But I disagree to some extent.

The way it works is when flights are overbooked, they look for volunteers. They didn't get enough. This guy was going to get paid $1000 in travel credits. Sorry you got bumped, but... like every other major airline... read the contract you signed when you bought the ticket. But he won't play ball.

Yes, they could have thrown more money at the passengers and found a different volunteer. But one argument against that is you show passengers they can hold a plan of 170 people hostage when they refuse to listen to the flightcrew and won't get off.

In any case, once the guy became uncooperative, law enforcement takes over, and United doesn't control the situation.

Oh... I love how the pundits say "you shouldn't overbook!"... yet they want to be able to have a 100% refundable ticket.

BTW, what is up with that guy's scream? He seriously gave up his man-card. I'm sure his wife and kids are proud.

What airline offers 100% refundable tickets? Southwest is the only that I know.

Pulling any paying passenger for a crew deadheading is crap. Poor planning on United is not the customers fault.
 

armada1651

Hey intern, get me a Campari!
pilot
Pulling any paying passenger for a crew deadheading is crap. Poor planning on United is not the customers fault.

Remember that next time you have a flight delayed or canceled because flight crew couldn't get there, because you'd see a hell of a lot more of that if airlines followed your logic. Like it or not delaying one passenger makes more sense than delaying an entire aircraft because a pilot or flight attendant couldn't have their seat. As for the poor planning piece, not really. Airlines have to plan for some people not making it to their scheduled flights for one reason or another, or all of us pay significantly more to subsidize those inevitably empty seats.
 

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
Remember that next time you have a flight delayed or canceled because flight crew couldn't get there, because you'd see a hell of a lot more of that if airlines followed your logic. Like it or not delaying one passenger makes more sense than delaying an entire aircraft because a pilot or flight attendant couldn't have their seat. As for the poor planning piece, not really. Airlines have to plan for some people not making it to their scheduled flights for one reason or another, or all of us pay significantly more to subsidize those inevitably empty seats.

When the airlines are making record profits, they can afford to pay the maximum ($1350) - in this case, they stopped at $1000. Problem could be solved by removing the cap - if the airline makes the mistake of overbooking, then the airline can raise and raise the incentive until a passenger voluntarily disembarks. In the long run, it will save them money because this guy is gonna win a lawsuit worth millions.

If anyone wants to know their rights, here is the info from the DOT. https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights
 

HuggyU2

Well-Known Member
None
What airline offers 100% refundable tickets? Southwest is the only that I know.

Pulling any paying passenger for a crew deadheading is crap. Poor planning on United is not the customers fault.

Not so much poor planning as it was poor execution.

If you believe deadheading a crew for paying pax is "poor planning", you probably do not have a good idea at how the 121 industry works.

And yes, United and others do refunds, though I believe SWA's policy is the least restrictive.
 

HuggyU2

Well-Known Member
None
Not so much poor planning as it was poor execution.

If you believe deadheading a crew for paying pax is "poor planning", you probably do not have a good idea at how the 121 industry works.

And yes, United and others do refunds, though I believe SWA's policy is the least restrictive.

Randy: this guy will not win a lawsuit worth millions.
What United did was require him to give up his seat, as per the contract he agreed to when he bought his ticket.
United didn't forcefully remove him: law enforcement did. After he disobeyed a lawful order on a commercial aircraft. I'll be curious what crimes he is charged with.

Once again, Rome is burning, and the media focuses on this.
 

armada1651

Hey intern, get me a Campari!
pilot
When the airlines are making record profits, they can afford to pay the maximum ($1350) - in this case, they stopped at $1000. Problem could be solved by removing the cap - if the airline makes the mistake of overbooking, then the airline can raise and raise the incentive until a passenger voluntarily disembarks. In the long run, it will save them money because this guy is gonna win a lawsuit worth millions.

I don't disagree that United handled this very poorly and should have offered more money and fixed the issue prior to boarding if possible. And they will probably lose money due to business lost because of the PR disaster. But again, overbooking isn't a mistake, it's a recognition of a statistical reality and a necessary way of doing business when most customers choose flights based solely on price. As for a lawsuit, who is this guy going to sue? United's customer service here was poor, but when the guy refused to obey flight crew who asked him to leave, he broke the law, and then resisted the police.
 

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
I don't disagree that United handled this very poorly and should have offered more money and fixed the issue prior to boarding if possible. And they will probably lose money due to business lost because of the PR disaster. But again, overbooking isn't a mistake, it's a recognition of a statistical reality and a necessary way of doing business when most customers choose flights based solely on price. As for a lawsuit, who is this guy going to sue? United's customer service here was poor, but when the guy refused to obey flight crew who asked him to leave, he broke the law, and then resisted the police.

I don't deny it is a statistical reality - but what I am saying is that the airline needs to pay until someone voluntarily decides not to go. Airline screws up, airline should pay.

The Economist seems to say the same thing today.

In such circumstances there should be only one correct course of action: to pay fair compensation to any volunteers willing to rebook onto a later service. And what counts as fair? Let the market decide. If flyers are not tempted by a carrier’s first offer, keep raising it until someone bites. If that price is many times the cost of the original ticket, so be it.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2017/04/when-ticket-not-enough

As for whether or not this guy gets a settlement from United, I am betting he does. The PR on television for United is horrible right now - heard it was the lead story on the BBC.
 
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