Discussion in 'Firearms' started by rookie7734, Jan 12, 2010.
I'll see your AA-12 and raise you one punt gun.
Sheesh... if only that were available to civilians talk about your your ideal weapon for home defense.
A little Tromix Saiga full auto fun while we are at it- He needs an MD-20 drum like mine....maybe
Simi with drum
Speakin' of which ... I've spoken to 'Mel' & I'm considering a Tromix-Saiga in a few months ... anyone have any experience w/ them and/or the Saiga in general ?? I'm wondering if it's 'worth' shedding my REM 11-87 Police for ... ??? I've held off as I'm not interested in an off-the-shelf Saiga, but the Tromix configuration appeals to me.
Tromix-Saiga vs. the Remington 11-87: is the only 'real' advantage the quick-change available w/ the Saiga magazines ... ??? I don't plan on doing too much room-clearing in the next few months ... just window shopping.
Mel's a sweatheart isn't she. I have a standard Saiga 12 and I bought a Tromix S06 from Tony about a year ago. It's exactly like the S06 pictured on his website. The shark break is a bit over the top maybe but who can argue with what amounts to be a round bayonet permanently mounted to a 12 ga LOL.
It may be the most fun gun I've ever fired. I've fired it with the factory 5 and 8 (I think) round mags plus aftermarket 12 round mags. I have a 20 round drum but haven't used it yet. It cycles noticably faster than the other simi-auto shotguns I own. (Benelli SBE, Mossy 930 SPX and FN SLP) Both of mine are dead nuts reliable. Reloads are much faster with the box mags over a tubular mag. In fact if you shoot a Saiga in 3 gun matches they make you shoot the unlimited class.
I love my Saiga 12's but if I had to grab only one of my shotguns it would be in this order. FN-SLP or Mossy SPX (flip a coin), Saiga 12 and bringing up the rear the Benelli SBE.
IMHO the Saiga has two problems. The mags are way too long to use when prone and it doesn't lock open on an empty mag. (then again neither does the AK) You can work with the mag length by rolling to one side when prone but that's a work around not a solution. Also when fully loaded a 12 round mag hangs a lot of mass out in space. I'd be concerned that if you banged it on something really hard it might break. If I was using it to defend my life I'd use the factory 5 rnd mag and nothing else. As far as the bolt hold open goes in an AK you can load tracers for the last few rounds to let you know when your are running dry. With a 12 gage that's not always possible.
I think someone is working on a Saiga 12 double stack mag which would be very nice and change the game for me.
All of that said I think everybody needs a Saiga 12. It puts a smile on my face and there isn't a weapon in the world better for pissing off your liberal friends.
I swear you can read the dumbest shit ever on the youtube comment section.
Word of advice; Don't even look at the comments, avert thine eyes lest thee be turned into a pillar of salt.
Psh, the 1887 is way better.
The 1887 ???
Or do you mean 11-87 ???
Rocketman: I know the Saiga is 'fun' (and I don't 'like' the magazine, for the record) and I'm certain that Tromix makes a primo-product ... but how 'bout a comparison w/ what you think re: the Remington 11-87 ???
Someone once told me that in the Saiga, the Rooskies have finally made an 'accurate' AK-47 ...
I don't have any personal experience with the 11-87 (or an 1100 for that matter). I've seen internet warriors write that 11-87's could be a little ammo sensitive but I'm pretty sure that was directed at early field versions firing various weight game loads. I don't think it's a problem with the current weapons. (especially with self defense loads.)
I'll say this, if the 11-87 configuration you are looking at was around when I bought my 930 I would have chosen the 11-87. There is a shit ton of aftermarket goodies out there for the Remingtons. Not so much for the 930 SPX or FN.
Assuming I confirmed the 11-87's reliability I would pick it over the Saiga for self defense. The Saiga's action is nothing short of an AK on steriods. I can't imagine breaking the weapon but I just can't feel 100% about that long ass mag sticking out there. Anything over a 5 round factory mag scares me.
And you still need to get the Tromix. It's well made weapon. You may as well go ahead and get on the wait list. Unless you've already sweet talked Mel into letting you cut in line. It can be done......LOL
Thanks for the 11-87 opinion, Bruddah ... it kinda confirms what I thought, but it's always good to hear it from one in the know.
And Mel ?? Sweet talk = cut in line ?? ... I think I got a new cavity from too much sugar ...
A4's - take a walk over to Warriors.com, or Gabe Suarez International and get all the info you need for Saiga and any number of other guns. It is a group that is pretty savvy and use them for serious defense work.
Roger that -- and thanks, Rock. I'm already on their mailing list & a forum member.
They are probably the ONLY reason that I have come to accept, if not necessarily 'love', the AK series and clones ... and while I don't agree w/ all their 'stuff' regarding specific weapons and the respective handling/manual of arms -- in general, when it comes to tactics -- I'm in agreement, subscribe to 'their' way of thinking, and in fact used to teach much of it when 'we' discovered that standing 10-20 abreast on the firing line to punch holes in paper would not transfer over into a 'combat' or personal defense scenario.
I have an 11-87 with a 26" barrel that I use (when I can) to go bird hunting and what not. It has never failed me and functions flawlessly with the lightest of bird loads or the heaviest of buckshot loads. Sure, it might not have the rate of fire that a Saiga can sustain, but the reliability is without question - I'll take reliability and ease of Remmy mods/parts/repair any day over a rate of fire in such a weapon. While I didn't even know they made a "tactical" variant of the 11-87 until this thread, I can't see Remington changing the action any. Were I to pick a semi-auto shotgun for "tactical"/home-defense, I wouldn't think twice about picking an 11-87 over a Saiga. I'd pick the Saiga for a fun gun, but that's about it.
edit: I see you already have an 11-87, so this may be a worthless post. So be it.
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