The Great Universal Health Care Debate w/Poll (note: it just passed both houses)

LOL! That's perhaps the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard!! Please cue John McEnroe yelling "You can't be serious!!"

It's a totally ridiculous concept to say that they should be "acting fast" on this. If the real intent was to reform the healthcare system, and not just grab power, it would be done in a series of smaller, close-to-independent steps, that could be looked at individually, and carefully. The reason that this is being rushed is not because of the urgency, it's because they don't want people to realize what the effect of the legislation will be.

Clinton was not successful in getting his wishes with regards to healthcare reform. We had a Republican administration that did not lift a finger in 8 years concerning an issue they also agreed needed reform. Republicans can say all they want, they had 8 years to fix what was broke. May the troubles of socialized healthcare bring a sense of guilt on their soul for doing nothing!! (I doubt that will ever happen)
I am about tired of all the whining. Healthcare reform is just one of many issues and I am glad to tell you that Socialized healthcare or whatever you wish to call it, is here to stay.

An interesting part of the bill is the part where you are penalized for not complying the the mandate to the IRC. This is the part that is not constitutional and I would even say diametrically opposed to the core concepts of individual autonomy and liberty.

As a side note the McCarran-Ferguson Act is left out of the bill, depsite the absolute power of the states to regulate health insurance unimpeded by the Federal government. The vehicle in which they passing this bill is the Commerce Clause.... but it is so twisted that now it means the government can compel people into intrastate trade.

This is the real unconsitutional part:
The penalty tax is not an income tax, nor an excise tax, but rather a direct tax (based on per family members, ie per person). The Constitution requires direct taxes to be apportioned by each state, it says nothing about the federal neo-police power to do so over a non-event.

This healthcare bill is not "reform" in any way whatsoever. It is a cluster**** of epic proportions (pardon the word).

The ONLY reason the Democrats are rushing it through is because they have a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to take control of a sixth of the U.S. economy.

The bill has all sorts of new regulatory agencies, commissions, and rules that no one really knows how they will all interact.

We have no need for socialized medicine in this nation. The private sector can handle it just fine. The only reason other countries have such systems is because they are much more socialist-leaning then the United States.

We are the greatest nation in the world precisely because we do NOT model ourselves after these other nations.

We are the greatest for many reasons. The one you give is not.

In that we do not copy other nations with their big government, high-taxation and regulation, it is.

I think we have the biggest government, so that is out the water. We don't have as much taxes but we will get there pretty soon as we need to do something to the national debt. We have regulations and lots of them because we have to make sure that people and businesses are not just taking matters into their own hands. Most developed countries have a lot of regulations. So, how are we different?

Obama caught off guard

This was great today. Skip to the end of the clip at the 4:00 mark. +1 for the reporter that called him out.

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/vi...e-in/9AD67C33B36701E5CA3D9AD67C33B36701E5CA3D

+1 for his "old man shuffle" back to the podium.

I am not sure that is what you exactly call "calling someone out". Obviously, he was not prepared for it but no big deal. No excessive stuttering either.

Clux, yes, he got called out. And rightfully so.

Unless I'm missing something, that's a pretty uneventful clip. I can only assume there was something actually substantive that has since been removed.

I guess he did because Ken says so!!. 1 Brownie point for Republicans and 0 for Democrats. Whoopi

If you feel hurt he forgot to wish the military a merry christmas, what about the firefighters, the police, government workers, the intelligence community. Get a grip.

If someone spends 20 years in the military and then retires, chooses to keep Tricare until Medicare takes over wont they have spent their entire life using a single payer government option? Am I understanding this incorrectly or does it seem a bit odd for a bunch of people who are currently using such a "terrible" system to be so outspoken against it?

Personally, the worst part of this bill is the proposed mandate it presents. FORCING someone to to use the government plan or pay fines on top of their own private provider premiums strikes me as a much greater problem than the coverage itself.

Steve, no matter what you post here and regardless of the condescending tone you use to present your arguments - polling has MAJOR faults. UF offers a great course called Public Opinion and Government Policy, check it out...

Now that its fairly obvious that some form of this bill is going to pass it seems to me that it would be in the GOP's interest (assuming they have any of our interests in mind) to work towards making the bill the best that it can rather than continuing to bring themselves down to the bickering and petty level of their foes across the aisle. Not holding my breath.

Not at all. The "single payer government option" for mil/retirees is not a welfare benefit, it's a compensation for your military service. Same as if you worked for a private company and they gave you insurance for free. The difference is the military has a lot of their own infrastructure because it makes sense (deployed medical personnel, flight docs, bases in tiny towns, etc)

Sidenote: The thread title is misleading; since the bill was amended in the Senate to remove the public option, it technically hasn't passed both houses. It still must go back to the House and be voted on in its current state.

Call it what you want, a "welfare benefit" or compensation - the fact of the matter is that, in execution, it is a exactly what everyone is afraid of now. These concerns are not without some justification but for some perspective - if you're in the military, its what you have now.