The Great Universal Health Care Debate w/Poll (note: it just passed both houses)

You're missing the point again. Yes you're required to have car insurance, but you're allowed to choose what policy, company, and even allowed to choose whether or not to own a vehicle. With this bill, choice is no longer on the table. You're required to have a policy simply because you exist. Sorry, but that doesn't exactly ring the bell of freedom in my ear.

As far as 'burdens to society' go: I'd much rather have few small burdens to pay for than be force fed the burden of the entire society.

What are you talking about? What gives you the impression that taxes will go towards paying health insurance. Two different things. Everyone pays for their own insurance.

@Exhelodrvr: The polls are not exactly a fantastic tool. They don't tell you much in my opinion. I don't believe that the majority of people sampled in these polls are in the same class as the majority that would be affected by this policy. Everyone agrees there is need for reform but I don't believe the majority of Americans understand the underlying issues.

The people who design the polls make a significant attempt to get an accurate cross-section of the populace. It varies from poll-to-poll if they are sampling likely voters or just adults (i.e. some segments of the populace are less likely to vote). That information is available.

If you look at one individual poll, it can be misleading. If you look at that poll over a period of time, it will fairly accurately show the trends. And when EVERY POLL shows the majority taking one side of an issue, with the trends for EVERY POLL going the same direction, you can be pretty confident in it's accuracy. It's quite clear that the American people have lost confidence in the combined competence of this administration and this congress to design and implement a goof health care plan of this magnitude.

This question may have already been answered, but I haven't read the other 580 posts.

How will this affect military members and their dependents? Will we still be required to buy this health insurance? It would be great if they have stipulations for this in the bill.

I have heard there are many versions of the bill, one of the bills saying military will still have Tricare, but there is another version of the bill that gets rid of Tricare all together and puts are families in the public option, but the Senate bill has no public option. If this was not a corrupt congress then we would have time to read the bill and debate its points.

I take it you are in favor of cutting way back on doctors' incomes, then. To make it fair, the government could pay for med school and malpractice insurance, and then just give the doctors a minimum wage.

And significantly limiting malpractice suits, so that lawyers stop profiting off of healthcare.

Nothing I have seen changes any health care plan for federal employees, including TRICARE. The President has explicitly said as much.

There may have been a proposal or two, and not a serious one, that proposes as much but I am pretty certain it never made it into a bill that was seriously considered. What you may be thinking of was a proposal for members Congress to be forced to take the public option, if there was one, instead of the government employee plan they are in now, which some proposed opening to everyone.

And corrupt? Taking it a bit far, aren't you?

Wow. This thread is one of the very few times that I actually feel apologetic.

I don't think the two houses will be able to come up with a compromise bill that they'll both pass.

Thanks for the info! Hope it stays that way.

It will, too big a political football to mess with.

I don't think it is going too far to point out corruption...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34551523/ns/politics-health_care_reform/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/20/AR2009122002956.html

Just because this stuff is becoming the norm, doesn't mean it isn't corruption....

For starters, folks like you and I; the military.

Because I do not understand how my car works does not make me unable to detect that there is something wrong. Ironically, the same works for the human body.

I don't know. I never said I did. I am just questioning the basis for making such a statement. I don't think the polls can accurately measure our response as a nation to healthcare reform. It is just like polling the country for their take on Immigration reform.


@Exhelodrvr: Polls are misleading and with a complicated issue as this, polling errors will abound. Don't forget the prediction that Thomas Dewey was going to defeat Truman in the 1948 election. I will leave you with this, disapproval of the handling of healthcare reform, most likely similar to sausage making (it really ain't pretty) may be low but that does not equate to disapproval of the policy in and of itself.

Clux,
Yes, people love it when politicians promise magical things. But when they find out that they are in fact, not magical, but will result in higher prices and lower quality, they tend to disapprove. And the fact that the Senate is trying to rush this through is the proof that the Senators know that the more the people find out about it, the more people will disapprove.

How is bribing Senators to vote for a bill not corrupt, just because they are doing it in the open does not mean its not corrupt. Why is Dodd the only one in the country getting 100 million dollars for his hospital. There is so many payoffs in this bill i dont know how its legal, and if it is legal then it should not be.

How is pork (funding going to his State) a bribe? It may be distasteful to the rest of us, but he's certainly doing right by his constituents.

The first link describes state attorney generals looking into federal action, I guess they missed the part on federal law being supreme. The second link is pork, not corruption, as mmx1 points out.

It is not illegal, if the Senator was to somehow personally benefit then it would be, but I have seen no suggestion of that and thus it does not meet the legal definition of corruption.

How is that not a bribe?

Merriam-Webster:
1 : money or favor given or promised in order to influence the judgment or conduct of a person in a position of trust
2 : something that serves to induce or influence

As a point of clarification, the top end of auto-insurance is pretty highly regulated, and auto insurance companies generally pay out more in claims than they take in for premiums (an underwriting loss) - the companies make money based on investments from capital of premiums. The web of comparitive risk and profitability are regulated by the particular state. It is pretty complicated, but all in all, we are not at their mercy - we are at the mercy of the regulators.

Yes, they make money through investment of premium but there is also the concept of shared risking that plays a bigger role. It plays a bigger role than you expect. Here is something that talks a little bit about it.

Insurance companies cannot bank their net profit solely on investment gains.

Thanks for your service to this great nation. You questioned my dedication to this great country in a previous post as if my presence in your military offended you.
Healthcare reform WILL NOT affect VA or TRICARE. I hope you are no implying that.The proposed changes to the VA system will make the claims process run better. I believe Shinseki is going to get the necessary upgrade as he has promised.

Don't try to twist it. The people are in support of reform. You can't make the stretch that they are against it when the average is not certain that they know enough to make a decision, either way on what is good for them.

Yes. Along which lines?

Mostly undecided voters change at the last minuet. They change because they do not vote along party lines. Considering the fact that we have a large majority of voters hovering around center on many issues, you assertion buttresses my point, that support for healthcare reform could go either way. So, it is really dangerous to take the results of an inaccurate poll and run with it.
All I am saying is that we cannot take the results of these polls to the bank. They are nothing but that; polls.


@Exhelodrvr: We need our law makers to act fast and move on to other pressing issues. Drawing out this process does not guarantee the success of the passing of the bill. We can always make amendments in the future to correct issues. This Bill is 30 years behind its time. If we are just now getting to it, we definitely have a lot of catching up to do.