Tapping the Power of the Chiefs

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Well-written article written by the Fleet Master Chief of Fleet Forces Command. A must read for any new Ensign coming out of Officer Candidate School or any of the other commissioning sources (Academy, ROTC, etc.).

https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2017-01/tapping-power-chiefs

 

[CommodoreMid]

All well and good.....unless you have a shitty chief. Then what's his advice? I've never understood why we as a Navy herald the chiefs as the main trainer of JOs. I've learned a ton from my chiefs and there are several that to this day I seek out their opinions even though they're retired, but I've learned way more about being a good officer from my seniors who bothered to take the time to mentor me about how shit should work, to include the finer points of working my chiefs.

 

[Recovering LSO]

Between Hue City Chiefs Mess and the MCPO board jackassery, seems to me that MCPON might be better served looking inward a bit - at least for a while.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

All well and good.....unless you have a shitty chief. Then what's his advice? I've never understood why we as a Navy herald the chiefs as the main trainer of JOs. I've learned a ton from my chiefs and there are several that to this day I seek out their opinions even though they're retired, but I've learned way more about being a good officer from my seniors who bothered to take the time to mentor me about how shit should work, to include the finer points of working my chiefs.

You would talk to the Dept Master Chief, unless you have a clueless DMC he knows who the weak CPO's are and should be able to help. A DMC doesn't want a bad CPO no more than you do so he or she will work to fix it.

I have worked with bad CPO's and can tell you a bad principal assistant or DH will do far more damage than a bad CPO.

I am sure things are different in the aviation community, but in the surface community a JO will spend more time each day with their CPO than they will with the PA or DH, a PA or DH is often so busy they rarely are in the spaces to teach the JO's.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Between Hue City Chiefs Mess and the MCPO board jackassery, seems to me that MCPON might be better served looking inward a bit - at least for a while.

The Hue City CMC needs to go, if he/she was so unaware or unapproachable then the CMC should be replaced.

There are more than MCPO's that sit the board, their are JO's and Senior officers as observers, any of them could have done something to cause issues too early to know the investigation will figure it out.

There are also plenty of examples of bad officers (Holly Graf for one, her sister was great officer though), it is far harder to get rid of a bad officer than it is a bad CPO unless the officer runs a ship aground.

 

[BACONATOR]

The Hue City CMC needs to go, if he/she was so unaware or unapproachable then the CMC should be replaced.

There are more than MCPO's that sit the board, their are JO's and Senior officers as observers, any of them could have done something to cause issues too early to know the investigation will figure it out.

There are also plenty of examples of bad officers (Holly Graf for one, her sister was great officer though), it is far harder to get rid of a bad officer than it is a bad CPO unless the officer runs a ship aground.

Perhaps the other-than-MCPOs are the ones who put a stop to the board, getting hints of the unfairness and nepotism rumors?

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Perhaps the other-than-MCPOs are the ones who put a stop to the board, getting hints of the unfairness and nepotism rumors?

anyone can raise a question, boards have been stopped for the most minor of issues, one was stopped because a message that was supposed to go out after the board was in session went out before it was in session, a simple error hitting the send key too early and they called that a compromise as well.

The investigation will determine, until then all speculation.

 

[CommodoreMid]

You would talk to the Dept Master Chief, unless you have a clueless DMC he knows who the weak CPO's are and should be able to help. A DMC doesn't want a bad CPO no more than you do so he or she will work to fix it.

I have worked with bad CPO's and can tell you a bad principal assistant or DH will do far more damage than a bad CPO.

I am sure things are different in the aviation community, but in the surface community a JO will spend more time each day with their CPO than they will with the PA or DH, a PA or DH is often so busy they rarely are in the spaces to teach the JO's.

I think just because of the nature of aviation which requires JOs to learn how to be better aviators (and if they're doing it right better leaders of sailors) from their more senior JOs and DHs makes them spend more time with those officers rather than their chiefs, so good point on community differences.

 

[Python]

You would talk to the Dept Master Chief, unless you have a clueless DMC he knows who the weak CPO's are and should be able to help. A DMC doesn't want a bad CPO no more than you do so he or she will work to fix it.

I have worked with bad CPO's and can tell you a bad principal assistant or DH will do far more damage than a bad CPO.

I am sure things are different in the aviation community, but in the surface community a JO will spend more time each day with their CPO than they will with the PA or DH, a PA or DH is often so busy they rarely are in the spaces to teach the JO's.

Concur with commodore mid. Aviation is completely different.

 

[picklesuit]

Judging by my interaction with the SWO community versus the Aviation community, we need to reevaluate the "influence" of E-7's on the new JO's.

They can learn daily, tactical use of their Sailors from their Chief. That doesn't mean they should be turning to them with leadership questions.

I believe we can continue to use the Goat Locker for the middle management resource they are, but leadership should be taught by leaders, not managers.

Pickle

 

[xj220]

Yeah, I never liked the Chiefs are supposed to train the JOs, philosophy.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Yeah, I never liked the Chiefs are supposed to train the JOs, philosophy.

I think it really depends how you look at it, a CPO shouldn't be training a JO on all aspects of the DIVO job, but there are many things they can train and advise them on, when I have a bit more time I will post how my relationship with my DIVO's was to give a better perspective on where I am coming from.

 

[Gatordev]

Warning: people will probably be pissed at the following...

What I'd love for the Chief's mess to do is to instill customs and courtesies back into our way of life. Sending out emails about boot blousings and then complaining that JO's need to tighten up their uniform is not the answer. While I can't wait to get to a point (soon...) where I don't have to worry about someone having to salute me, it's still part of our culture and one I exist in for a bit longer. So how about we enforce the standard so that maybe more than 50% of Sailors can manage to a) address someone senior when walking by and b) actually render honors.

Instead there seems to be a lot of energy spent on whether we capitalize "Sailors" or "Chiefs" in correspondence. Which by the way, the article failed miserably at, so obviously it should be discounted. (joking)

 

[Goodfou]

Successful people surround themselves with wise counsel. Good CPOs provide wise counsel to JOs in a host of issues. The statement, "CPOs train JOs," is likely meant to hammer home the importance of working with and weighing heavily the advice of the CPO. Do CPOs train JOs? Absolutely. Should it be viewed with disdain? No more than sitting through the all hands training provided by a 2nd Class command CFL who is the expert on the changes to the PFA program. CPOs have a lot of valuable knowledge to share with the JO that can assist in his success in whatever position he holds. In the end, we know that the JO sets policy and we, as CPOs, carry it out, regardless of our personal opinions.

On another note, leadership is not isolated to the Ward Room. The Ward Room sets policy while the CPO Mess manages the enforcement of that policy. Leadership is found on both sides of this coin. As John Maxwell conveys in his books, a leader is one whom people follow regardless of their position of authority; rather, it is about influence. The fact that CPOs carry out the orders of Officers does not make officers leaders. I know personnel from E1-O6 that are leaders and others who are anything but.

Here are but a few quotes from Maxwell as seen on Inc.com:

"A great leader's courage to fulfill his vision comes from passion, not position." John C. Maxwell

"Leadership is not about titles, positions or flowcharts. It is about one life influencing another." John C. Maxwell

"A leader is one who knows the way, goes the way, and shows the way." John C. Maxwell

"Leaders must be close enough to relate to others, but far enough ahead to motivate them." John C. Maxwell

"Real leadership is being the person others will gladly and confidently follow." John C. Maxwell

https://www.inc.com/peter-economy/4...that-will-take-you-to-leadership-success.html

 

[Flash]

...I don't have to worry about someone having to salute me, it's still part of our culture and one I exist in for a bit longer. So how about we enforce the standard so that maybe more than 50% of Sailors can manage to a) address someone senior when walking by and b) actually render honors.

Instead there seems to be a lot of energy spent on whether we capitalize "Sailors" or "Chiefs" in correspondence. Which by the way, the article failed miserably at, so obviously it should be discounted. (joking)

Is not saluting really a thing now? And since when did we start capitalizing "Sailors" and "Chiefs"? I guess I missed that memo in the SELRES.